Custer That Man, Custer!

[Joe Meyer]

I came across the following passages about George Armstrong Custer in the book entitled, The Personal Memoirs of Major-General David S. Stanley. Stanley commanded the 1873 Yellowstone Expedition in which Custer was a participant. In a series of letters to his wife Stanley mentions Custer a number of times.

June 28th -

"...I have had no trouble with Custer, and will try to avoid having any; but I have seen enough of him to convince me that he is a cold blooded, untruthful and unprincipled man. He is universally despised by all the officers of his regiment excepting his relatives and one or two sycophants. He brought a trader in the field without permission, carries an old negro woman, and cast iron cooking stove, and delays the march often by his extensive packing up in the morning. As I said I will try, but I am not sure I can avoid trouble with him..."

July 1st -

"...I had a little flurry with Custer as I told you I probably would. We were separated 4 miles, and I intended him to assist in getting the train, his own train, over the Muddy River. Without consulting me he marched off 15 miles, coolly sending me a note to send him forage and rations. I sent after him, ordered him to halt where he was, to unload his wagons, and send for his own rations and forage, and never to presume to make another movement without orders.
"I knew from the start it had to be done, and I am glad to have so good a chance, when there could be no doubt who was right. He was just gradually assuming command, and now he knows he has a commanding officer who will not tolerate his arrogance."

Stanley and Custer never served together during the Civil War, but both officers were friends of Sheridan. Stanley, himself, could be as cantankerous, troublesome and as judgmental as most Civil War generals, but in this case he appears to have had a pretty fair and accurate opinion of the man who would eventually and shortly lead his own regiment to destruction along the Little Big Horn River.

Or did he? Did Stanley get it right?

 

[Northern Light]

Interesting!

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Interesting!

Very.

 

[Union_Buff]

A very interesting view of Custer - thanks for posting Joe

 

[rhettbutler1865]

Good post! I'm just curious--what are you asking, when you say...""Or did he?" Did whom? And what? I've always liked the comment (hate to say it was Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai )--"...he fell in love with his own legend, and his troopers died for it." Again, interesting to hear what a fellow officer thought of him. Thanks.

 

[Mike Serpa]

I once lived in Antelope!
Custer, March 1873.

Cowan's Auctions

 

[rhettbutler1865]

I once lived in Antelope!
Custer, March 1873.
View attachment 67066
Cowan's Auctions

Nice, Mike! Nice...

 

[Youngblood]

It must have been hard for those guys who enjoyed very high rank during the war to be reduced to much smaller commands after. Ive even heard of a Brig. General dropping to Sgt. It would be hard not to feel a little insubordinate especially when you might think the guys who kept decent rank might have been connected guys you think are incompetent.

 

[Northern Light]

It must have been hard for those guys who enjoyed very high rank during the war to be reduced to much smaller commands after. Ive even heard of a Brig. General dropping to Sgt. It would be hard not to feel a little insubordinate especially when you might think the guys who kept decent rank might have been connected guys you think are incompetent.

They were still soldiers and knew the drill of the command structure. They knew better than to be insubordinate and the fact that they had held higher rank makes their behaviour worse. They wouldn't have put up with it during the war, with their own subordinates. Not being snarky, honest!

 

[Dave Wilma]

The war was wonderful for Custer. He became a hero and a general by just wading into the rebels without much concern about the cost. He did the same with the tribes. But he didn't do so well as a peacetime soldier obeying orders and being part of a larger organization. He was beached in 1875 for disobeying orders to leave his post so he could be with Libbie. I worked in law enforcement with characters like Custer.

 

[Covington Rebel]

I'd always been sort of neutral on Custer, giving him the benefit of the doubt. That was until I recently read John Mosby's memoirs. Custer had 7 of Mosby's men hanged even though they were prisoners of war. As much as the Yankees hated Mosby, none of them tried to hang any prisoners that may have come into their hands from his command, except Custer. Mosby then sent a notice to Gen. Sheridan that because of this incident, he would hang 7 Union prisoners and that he hoped that would end the matter but with no satisfaction on his (Mosby's) part. In the event, Mosby held a lottery among the captured Union prisoners he had at Rectortown. One of those who got the short straw was a 12 year old drummer boy. One of the Union officers protested. So Mosby relented and had a re-draw. The officer that protested got the short straw. After all that, only 5 were hanged. I happened to be by Rectortown a couple of weeks ago and read the marker. It's also where McClellan was relieved of command.

I'm not neutral of anyone who hangs prisoners. Especially of my kinsman's command.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

I'd always been sort of neutral on Custer, giving him the benefit of the doubt. That was until I recently read John Mosby's memoirs. Custer had 7 of Mosby's men hanged even though they were prisoners of war. As much as the Yankees hated Mosby, none of them tried to hang any prisoners that may have come into their hands from his command, except Custer. Mosby then sent a notice to Gen. Sheridan that because of this incident, he would hang 7 Union prisoners and that he hoped that would end the matter but with no satisfaction on his (Mosby's) part. In the event, Mosby held a lottery among the captured Union prisoners he had at Rectortown. One of those who got the short straw was a 12 year old drummer boy. One of the Union officers protested. So Mosby relented and had a re-draw. The officer that protested got the short straw. After all that, only 5 were hanged. I happened to be by Rectortown a couple of weeks ago and read the marker. It's also where McClellan was relieved of command.

I'm not neutral of anyone who hangs prisoners. Especially of my kinsman's command.

Merritt had those men hanged, not Custer. Mosby was dead wrong when he blamed Custer for it. There's been a recent book on that subject by a fellow named Jay Simson that addresses this mythology. This is the book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0786439734/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

 

[major bill]

Many people still see Custer as a glorious hero. No one can say he was not bold.

 

[tdftdf]

Merritt had those men hanged, not Custer. Mosby was dead wrong when he blamed Custer for it. There's been a recent book on that subject by a fellow named Jay Simson that addresses this mythology. This is the book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0786439734/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

thanks for the link. I've heard this about Custer as well - so it is great to get to the facts

 

[Covington Rebel]

Merritt had those men hanged, not Custer. Mosby was dead wrong when he blamed Custer for it. There's been a recent book on that subject by a fellow named Jay Simson that addresses this mythology. This is the book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0786439734/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Thanks for the link and the book on that point. If Custer didn't do it, did he court martial Merritt? If he he didn't do it, why did Sheridan not deny his responsibility to Mosby in response to Mosby's letter accusing Custer?

I will of course give the book due consideration, it seems easy to impeach the testimony of someone who has been dead for 100 years. Not much chance of someone refuting what they have to say since everyone with first-hand knowledge of the event is long dead. Mosby had no particular reason to accuse Custer. This was main thing he had against Custer.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Thanks for the link and the book on that point. If Custer didn't do it, did he court martial Merritt? If he he didn't do it, why did Sheridan not deny his responsibility to Mosby in response to Mosby's letter accusing Custer?

I will of course give the book due consideration, it seems easy to impeach the testimony of someone who has been dead for 100 years. Not much chance of someone refuting what they have to say since everyone with first-hand knowledge of the event is long dead. Mosby had no particular reason to accuse Custer. This was main thing he had against Custer.

Merritt outranked Custer. It would have been pretty difficult for Custer to court-martial him.

Believe what you want. But understand that it's been pretty commonly accepted that Mosby was wrong about this.

 

[Specster]

They were still soldiers and knew the drill of the command structure. They knew better than to be insubordinate and the fact that they had held higher rank makes their behaviour worse. They wouldn't have put up with it during the war, with their own subordinates. Not being snarky, honest!

Do we know how reliable the story is? It seems like he disliked Custer from the get go. Maybe he had cause, as he says, or maybe there were other reasons. Was the story corroborated?

Many people on this site, at a minimum, have a low opinion of Custer. Perhaps it is well deserved. I tend not to. I think he was a good soldier. Yet, I am not a student of his career - I am sure many of you are better informed than I. Then again, Im not sure he is given a fair shake. Ive read people minimize his actions at Gettysburg. I dont know, I think that was he clashing into Stuart with a fraction of JEBs force. Yet he is marginalized. I dont get it.

 

[Northern Light]

Do we know how reliable the story is? It seems like he disliked Custer from the get go. Maybe he had cause, as he says, or maybe there were other reasons. Was the story corroborated?

Many people on this site, at a minimum, have a low opinion of Custer. Perhaps it is well deserved. I tend not to. I think he was a good soldier. Yet, I am not a student of his career - I am sure many of you are better informed than I. Then again, Im not sure he is given a fair shake. Ive read people minimize his actions at Gettysburg. I dont know, I think that was he clashing into Stuart with a fraction of JEBs force. Yet he is marginalized. I dont get it.

It is not so much that what he did is marginalized, as that he was only a part of the whole engagement, which was led by Gregg. Gregg gets almost no credit, while Custer, was not in charge, gets the credit for winning the whole shooting match. It is not necessarily his fault, although I am skeptical of that, but it is his personality that gets to me.
As for my opinion of Custer, it was formed long before I knew he had anything to do with the Civil War. My subsequent reading of Custer since, has only proved the adage that familiarity breeds contempt.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

It is not so much that what he did is marginalized, as that he was only a part of the whole engagement, which was led by Gregg. Gregg gets almost no credit, while Custer, was not in charge, gets the credit for winning the whole shooting match. It is not necessarily his fault, although I am skeptical of that, but it is his personality that gets to me.
As for my opinion of Custer, it was formed long before I knew he had anything to do with the Civil War. My subsequent reading of Custer since, has only proved the adage that familiarity breeds contempt.

Not to mention the fact that Gregg ordered both of those charges, not Custer....

 

[Covington Rebel]

I don't want to belabor this because I'm not overly interested in this point. I would mention that Mosby was a lawyer and he wrote his memoirs later on in life. He had no particular ax to grind against Yankees, he became a Republican after the war and was on friendly terms with Grant. In fact one of the last things Grant did in his life was to secure a position for Mosby at the Southern Pacific Railroad. Being a lawyer, Mosby would have checked his facts with regard to Custer. And, he would have had the opportunity to read and respond to those who had a different opinion, as he did with those who took after Stuart for his riding around Union Army before Gettysburg.

It appears that at a minimum, it was Custer's men who did most of the killing. Now, exactly who's orders they were under when they did the killing seems a bit murky. It appears several of the Union commanders had no compunction about ordering the murder of POWs. That's probably more disturbing than exactly who was directly at fault. Obviously, Custer is not at fault for the one man that was taken in front of Torbert who ordered him killed.

And, last but not least, Mosby is kin to me and blood is thicker than water. I'm standing by my kinsman.