Telegraph lines

[DixieRifles]

The fact that Grierson cut the telegraph at Hazlehurst did not factor into that equation. Or at least that is how I'm seeing that particular issue.

Explain this statement.
I thought a cut telegraph line could be repaired quite easily.

 

[tony_gunter]

Right.
The question becomes after 4/29, when that line was cut, how were messages transmitted to/from Bowen at GG/PG from/to Pemberton at Jackson?

I'm trying to trace the routes through the state to see. Apparently, the People's Telegraph Company ran the line from Pittsburg to New Orleans through Columbus, Jackson, Gallatin, and Liberty, the Louisville and New Orleans Company through Yazoo City and Vicksburg? Or vice versa?

Then the two merged right before the treaty of six nations.

Redundancy is great militarily, but it doesn't make corporate sense. Did they continue to maintain redundant lines?

 

[alan polk]

Explain this statement.
I thought a cut telegraph line could be repaired quite easily.

It can be repaired quickly. My point in that particular post was that communications from Jackson to Grand Gulf went through Vicksburg, not Hazlehurst, so I felt at the time that the Hazlehurst connection did not need fit into the conversation.

 

[JohnG0609]

I don't think redundancy was the goal of the telegraph companies. I think redundant capability was the result of inter-connectivity created by economics.

It is Grabau's premise that the line between GG and Vburg was quickly repaired but the citations in his footnote 13 says nothing of a quick repair. I think Bowen's 4/30 message to Pemberton validates that the GG/Vburg line was not operable when he said the loss of PG would sever all communications. That tells me there was another telegraph system that allowed him to still have comms to Pemberton in Jackson that was not the GG/Vburg line

The available data supports two lines from PG, one northwest to GG and one east/northeast, I believe connecting at some point along the general line of the J&NO RR, above Hazlehurst. The notional route is PG-->Gallatin-->Crystal Springs.-->Jackson.

 

[alan polk]

John, I do think you are on to something. It seems reasonable that Bowen communicated with Jackson via some eastern route after the telegraph failure on the 29th. But I have a few rambling thoughts and questions.

Assuming Bowen had two means to telegraphically communicate with Pemberton from GG —one to the east and one directly to the north, then….

If GG—>Vicksburg line went down during the GG bombardment on April 29, why was Bowen unable to immediately reroute messages from GG to the Port Gibson—> Gallatin—> Jxn—> Vicksburg route in a timely manner? Why the long delay during the bombardment of GG? It seems communication was down most of the day.

Thus…

Is it possible that the telegraph breakdown actually affected the entire line from PG—>GG—> Vicksburg? In other words, the break was not just between GG and Vicksburg but occurred in a way that affected the entire line from PG to Vicksburg? This would make more sense when it is declared that a retreat across Bayou Pierre (as opposed Big Black) would entail a loss of all communication.

My other query involves the message by Pemberton from Vicksburg to Loring on May 2, sent when Loring and Tilghman were moving from Edwards to Port Gibson. I'm not sure the precise route that they took, but I'm assuming they travelled south from Edwards across 14-Mile Creek and then toward Cayuga/Rocky Springs. Pemberton probably sent this message from Vicksburg via courier with hopes of intersecting Loring somewhere between Cayuga and Rocky Springs.

Anyhow, that message, in part, reads:

"Nothing has been heard from General Bowen since 5.30 last evening. My anxiety to hear is very great, and I hope you will keep me constantly and regularly informed of your position and current events. If possible, stop the telegraph wire behind you, which can be done if the telegraph operator took with him his instruments."


We are all familiar with this message but I wonder what "stop the telegraph wire behind you" means?

And is the telegraph operator with Loring as he marches from Edwards? Or is he referencing the telegraph operator in Port Gibson, or maybe even Grand Gulf? Pemberton seems to think that whatever the problem is it can be resolved by a telegraph operator who has his "instruments." This is probably not important but something to ponder.

Whatever the case might've been, I was wrong to suppose earlier in this thread that the Confederates might have repaired telegraph communication from Vicksburg to a point near Hankinson's Ferry on the north side of Big Black. It appears that any such communication from Vicksburg to points around Hankinson's Ferry after Loring/Bowen retreated was carried out by a line of couriers, not by telegraph.

But, again, I do think you are on to something. And so I'm wondering if the reason Bowen could not report from GG to Jackson as the Battle of GG raged was because the only telegraph station working was the one in the town of Port Gibson. Thus, he does not report to Pemberton until such time as he was in Port Gibson and then only via the eastern telegraph route.

 

[JohnG0609]

Here is Lloyd's Railroad, Telegraph, Express map 1867. Shows the telegraph PG-->Rodney-->Fayette-->west of Brookhaven-->Jackson. But note that the telegraph line runs parallel to, but more than one mile west of the line of the J&NO RR with spur lines to the stations along the RR. It could be possible that Grant at Bruinsburg didn't reach quite far enough east to interdict the line and Grierson just hit the station at Hazlehurst without interrupting the actual line. It seems to fit.

Lloyd's railroad, telegraph & express map of the United States and Canadas from official information.

Map of the eastern United States showing relief by hachures, drainage, cities and towns, forts and fortification, express companies, railroads, and magnetic telegraph wires. Includes railroads which have been completed and in operation up to July 1863.

www.loc.gov

Screenshot:

 

[tony_gunter]

Here is Lloyd's Railroad, Telegraph, Express map 1867. Shows the telegraph PG-->Rodney-->Fayette-->west of Brookhaven-->Jackson. But note that the telegraph line runs parallel to, but more than one mile west of the line of the J&NO RR with spur lines to the stations along the RR. It could be possible that Grant at Bruinsburg didn't reach quite far enough east to interdict the line and Grierson just hit the station at Hazlehurst without interrupting the actual line. It seems to fit.

Lloyd's railroad, telegraph & express map of the United States and Canadas from official information.

Map of the eastern United States showing relief by hachures, drainage, cities and towns, forts and fortification, express companies, railroads, and magnetic telegraph wires. Includes railroads which have been completed and in operation up to July 1863.

www.loc.gov

Screenshot:

View attachment 550692

I don't see any evidence that the telegraph had been shifted to the railroad by 1863. I think it still ran through Gallatin and Liberty, with possible redundant lines from Port Gibson to Natchez and Vicksburg. The line to Grand Gulf is mentioned as a separate line for carrying messages to the river.

This would explain why the line went down on 4/29 because Grierson didn't interdict the Liberty to Gallatin Road until that date.

As far as a line running to the northeast from Port Gibson, that could be explained by the fact that the most viable place to carry a line to Vicksburg across the Big Black is Hankinson's Ferry.

Humorous aside: the railroad bridge from Port Gibson to Grand Gulf was completed in July 1852 and washed away in a storm in August 1852.

 

[alan polk]

This would explain why the line went down on 4/29 because Grierson didn't interdict the Liberty to Gallatin Road until that date.

But this does not explain why the line between GG and Vicksburg went down, right? Or am I missing something bigger regarding the widespread telegraph failure of the 29th?

As far as a line running to the northeast from Port Gibson, that could be explained by the fact that the most viable place to carry a line to Vicksburg across the Big Black is Hankinson's Ferry.

So, you think that there was a separate telegraph line from Port Gibson that bypassed GG and ran direct to Vicksburg via Hankinson's Ferry?

 

[tony_gunter]

But this does not explain why the line between GG and Vicksburg went down, right? Or am I missing something bigger regarding the widespread telegraph failure of the 29th?



So, you think that there was a separate telegraph line from Port Gibson that bypassed GG and ran direct to Vicksburg via Hankinson's Ferry?

There used to be at least. Above, I posted an article from the Vicksburg Whig that stated the telegraph linesman had progressed through town from the north heading south (other than directional information, it's just Cotton-Eyed Joe … where did they come from where did they go, where did they come from nobody knows).

These were competing lines from two different companies, but the two merged in 1853 just before the six nations treaty into the People's Telegraph. Then during the war, the Confederate Sequestration Act split the company north from south, and it was known as Southwestern Telegraph.

If I had to guess, the redundant lines were still in place, but not fully maintained. Which meant that the line north to Vicksburg could be restored quickly?

I'm shocked the papers don't have more information about the telegraph routes, seems like a reporter could have just asked the workers about the routes out of sheer curiosity.

 

[JohnG0609]

But this does not explain why the line between GG and Vicksburg went down, right? Or am I missing something bigger regarding the widespread telegraph failure of the 29th?



So, you think that there was a separate telegraph line from Port Gibson that bypassed GG and ran direct to Vicksburg via Hankinson's Ferry?

Oh boy, this thing has some life to it!. I thought I'd pop in, ask a question, get a vector check and move on. Now we are on Day 4 of figuring!

This is what I think:

The route north was PG-->GG-->Hankinson's-->Warrenton(?)-->Vicksburg-->Jackson.

My working schematic for the second line fits with the Lloyd's map of PG-->Rodney-->Fayette. A hub at Fayette -->Union Church-->Gallatin-->CS-->Jackson
-->Natchez-->Bayou Sara-->PH
-->Woodville-->Magnolia/Osyka-->Jackson

I think the line ran just interior enough from the river to avoid being interdicted by a force landing at Bruinsburg and advancing NE to PG and, a line just far enough west of the J&NO RR to avoid interdiction by Grierson, except at the depots, but not the main trunk line to Jackson. I don't have a ready explanation for Grierson transiting Gallatin and Union Church. I know he sent a detachment to hit the RR and Telegraph at Bahala to fool the Confederates. Perhaps he wanted to avoid detection at Gallatin by not destroying the telegraph or perhaps they passed under the telegraph line at night, without knowing of its presence.

All notional so let me know if I've missed the mark.

 

[alan polk]

Came across this on Facebook and thought I'd post it here. It is not made clear where this historical marker is, though I suppose it might be in Pearlington, MS.

Although the telegraph system described here is not located in the immediate area this thread covers, it at least adds to the larger picture as concerns telegraph lines in Mississippi during the Vicksburg Campaign.

 

[Samwisep86]

Came across this on Facebook and thought I'd post it here. It is not made clear where this historical marker is, though I suppose it might be in Pearlington, MS.

Although the telegraph system described here is not located in the immediate area this thread covers, it at least adds to the larger picture as concerns telegraph lines in Mississippi during the Vicksburg Campaign.

View attachment 563465
View attachment 563466

The Historical Marker DataBase (HMDB) lists the marker in Perkinston, MS.

The Wire Road Historical Marker

To provide communication between Mobile and New Orleans, a telegraph line was completed in 1848. (A historical marker located near Perkinston in Stone County, Mississippi.)

www.hmdb.org

 

[alan polk]

The Historical Marker DataBase (HMDB) lists the marker in Perkinston, MS.

The Wire Road Historical Marker

To provide communication between Mobile and New Orleans, a telegraph line was completed in 1848. (A historical marker located near Perkinston in Stone County, Mississippi.)

www.hmdb.org

Thanks!