What is this? Stand of grape?

[TJH]

Just joined the community on here so forgive me if I'm posting to the wrong forum. I'm hoping to learn more about what I believe is an ACW stand of grape. My great uncle acquired it sometime in the 1930s but don't know much more than that. Including pics below with measurements. Total weight is 73.4lbs. It has minimal rust and is able to be dismantled by hand.

Would love to know more about it, what it is/where it's likely from. Are they common? Valuable? Any insight would be appreciated! Thanks

 

[Rhea Cole]

The only comparable stand of grape shot I found online sold for $230.00 US. Individual grape shot are common. A stand of grape complete with handle appears to be rare.

 

[drezac]

Nice item. Grape would have been a round for naval and heavy artillery usage.

 

[redbob]

What you appear to have is a stand of grape shot for an 8"smoothbore gun and it should weigh about 70 pounds. It is probably Union made and the unusual part for me is the metal handle. A good piece and about the only thing I see wrong with it is the retaining nut on top is upside down. A great find, congratulations and the value is pretty much what a collector would be willing to pay.

 

[bayonet]

I take it that "retaining nut on top" would be removed prior to firing or dumping the whole thing down the barrel?

 

[Rhea Cole]

I take it that "retaining nut on top" would be removed prior to firing or dumping the whole thing down the barrel?

Good question. The force of the detonation was sufficient to break the retaining discs & release the grape shot. The handle, retaining spring etc became projectiles as well.

 

[UCVRelics]

I take it that "retaining nut on top" would be removed prior to firing or dumping the whole thing down the barrel?

Nice piece. No the retaining nut would not be removed and as Rhea stated the whole thing would have been loaded as is. @redbob is spot on with the handle as it should be rope. That handle was added after the war and was not part of the original piece.

 

[Ole Miss]

What you appear to have is a stand of grape shot for an 8"smoothbore gun and it should weigh about 70 pounds. It is probably Union made and the unusual part for me is the metal handle. A good piece and about the only thing I see wrong with it is the retaining nut on top is upside down. A great find, congratulations and the value is pretty much what a collector would be willing to pay.

Pretty much spot on analysis very well done. Not sure I could add much grasshopper
Regards
David

 

[redbob]

Pretty much spot on analysis very well done. Not sure I could add much grasshopper
Regards
David

High praise indeed

 

[Rhea Cole]

Nice piece. No the retaining nut would not be removed and as Rhea stated the whole thing would have been loaded as is. @redbob is spot on with the handle as it should be rope. That handle was added after the war and was not part of the original piece.

For what it is worth, the illustration in Gibbon's manual has a metal handle. I have no idea how common that was, but have seen several in photos.

 

[redbob]

The balls in this sized 8" Grape Shot Stand are the same size/weight as would be used in a 6 pound cannon and the reason that I feel that it is Union is that the quality of construction of the round is so good. Confederate rounds tended to be cruder, and the balls often had evidence of a casting ridge around them. I would also think that the iron handle might make it harder to load with the rammer and more difficult to seat properly.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[bayonet]

Nice piece. No the retaining nut would not be removed and as Rhea stated the whole thing would have been loaded as is. @redbob is spot on with the handle as it should be rope. That handle was added after the war and was not part of the original piece.

Having seen 6 and 12 pounder canisters that were wrapped in a thin metal container, I wonder if the same would of been true with this one too? I believe Rev War grape was wrapped in cloth. Also you would think you'd get better separation of the round if they did remove that retaining nut, strange.

 

[bankerpapaw]

I always thought grape shot was about the size of 00 buck shot.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I always thought grape shot was about the size of 00 buck shot.

A stand of grape always had the same number of balls. A six pound stand you can hold in your hand, for a XV inch it weighed 128 pounds. The balls scaled up according.

Oddly enough, in some English references, spherical case (Shrapnel) is called grape shot. It does… "contain a handful of grape sized balls."

 

[Rhea Cole]

The balls in this sized 8" Grape Shot Stand are the same size/weight as would be used in a 6 pound cannon and the reason that I feel that it is Union is that the quality of construction of the round is so good. Confederate rounds tended to be cruder, and the balls often had evidence of a casting ridge around them. I would also think that the iron handle might make it harder to load with the rammer and more difficult to seat properly.

The handle is a bale that lies flat when not in use.

 

[Larryh86GT]

A stand of grape always had the same number of balls. A six pound stand you can hold in your hand, for a XV inch it weighed 128 pounds. The balls scaled up according.

Oddly enough, in some English references, spherical case (Shrapnel) is called grape shot. It does… "contain a handful of grape sized balls."

What did a 6 pound stand look like? The ACW had them?

 

[redbob]

Having seen 6 and 12 pounder canisters that were wrapped in a thin metal container, I wonder if the same would of been true with this one too? I believe Rev War grape was wrapped in cloth. Also you would think you'd get better separation of the round if they did remove that retaining nut, strange.

While canister of all sizes were loose in a tin can, these were held together by the rings and were loaded and fired just as you see them. There was also quilted grapeshot which was an iron bottom plate with a rod sticking out of it inside of a cloth bag with iron balls inside the bag surrounding the iron rod. The bag was surrounded by stout cord which held it all together. The iron bolt in the grapeshot was weak enough to break when the round was fired allowing the round to fly apart.

 

[redbob]

The smallest Civil War era grapeshot stand that I have seen is for a 12# gun, but canister came in a. 6# size.

 

[redbob]

From left: 4# Quilted Stand of Grapeshot, 12#Stand of Grapeshot & 12# Field Howitzer Canister (less can).