Springfield original or replica that got defarbed?

[thomas aagaard]

Iam currently on my phone so I Will make this short

Is this springfield a original in very good shape? Or a replica that got defarbed?

 

[bayonet]

It's my understanding that the Repro or Replicas were dated 1861, but that barrel is not original to the Colt lockplate which may be original. There should be an Eagle below the nipple, there is no 1864 on top of the barrel, there is a VP but no Eagle and the VP is too far forward, also there should be a STEEL marking below where the VP and Eagle should go. The stock maybe original since many of the Colt muskets I've seen are in very good condition.

 

[johan_steele]

http://www.fulmersantiqueguns.com/Images/lgymusket.jpg

Here is a link to an LG&Y instead of a Colt. The rear lock screw is wrong, the barrel markings are wrong as well as noted by bayonet. The lock and stock look right to me however with that barrel and lock screw I would be looking very hard at the rest of the weapon and probably would pass on it unless the price was right.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Just looked at lodgewoods page for defarbing and it also point to the swivels being similar to what amisport use and not correct for an original.

 

[Lead Snowstorm]

I personally do not like the looks of the stock. In particular, the rounding of the stock flat indicates a significant amount of sanding, yet the cartouches appear sharp. In addition, the Allin cartouche does not look correct to me. Below are images of the stock flats of models 1855, 1868, and 1870. In particular, note the cross-stroke of the A, and the relation of the bottom curliques of the A and the S, and of the S and E:

 

[rob63]

I have an original Colt made in 1864 and here are photos of the cartouches. Erskine S. Allin was the master armorer at Springfield, his cartouche would not appear on a gun made by Colt. I think it is an original Colt lockplate installed on a defarbed reproduction.

 

[Conquerordie]

Those odd markings on the barrel have a European feel to me, but yeah something not right there. Maybe sold off and sent overseas? Cartouches look way too fresh. Id say it's been toyed with.

 

[Lead Snowstorm]

As a follow-up to my previous post, please reference:

https://bardalls.com/shop/ols/produ...spection-cartouche-stock-stamp-45-70-spr-crb1

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/springfield-trapdoor-rifle-carbine-1839649701

 

[CowCavalry]

As a follow-up to my previous post, please reference:

https://bardalls.com/shop/ols/produ...spection-cartouche-stock-stamp-45-70-spr-crb1

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/springfield-trapdoor-rifle-carbine-1839649701

That's disgusting.

 

[Conquerordie]

I always knew stamps like this existed because of musket defarbing, but I thought each gunsmith might have had them made up for their own use. To see that any dealer out there could buy these and apply them to a musket doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Bardall's Military Stock Stamps & Custom Tyler TX 75701 (918) 284-4702
................

 

[CowCavalry]

Bardall's Military Stock Stamps & Custom Tyler TX 75701 (918) 284-4702
................

Are they at least made differently so that someone in the know can recognize them as reproductions?

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Look at their web site. You decide !!!

 

[thomas aagaard]

Hi again.

First of all thanks for the replies.

I better explain what this is about.
Last week I was back in Copenhagen, and one of the two main auction houses here in Denmark had an ex French M1822 on auction that I wanted to take a look at.
So I went by the auction house and looked at the M1822 and I ended up chatting with their gun expert.
He is no question one of the leading experts when it come to Danish military firearms but you can't know everything.

So when I told him that I did reenactment of the acw he mentioned that he had a Springfield in storage that he was a troubled by.

He was sure that it was not a entirely original gun. But similar it is clearly not an off the shelf replica.

Obviously it is important for him to be able to describe the musket correctly when putting it up for auction.

But also because of Danish arms laws it is a very important detail if its an original that have been repaired with modern parts.
or a replica that might have some original parts put on it.

The first is an antiquity that require no license and that you can hang on the wall. (even if its perfectly usable)
The 2nd a firearms with a license being required and it must be stored in an armslocker.

So I took a look at it, but I where honest that I really don't know much about the Springfield and the many manufactures of it.
But I agreed that there was something wrong.

But I promised to ask around online about it.

So what I gather from your replies and my own reading.
The hammer have the right shape, unlike the typical replicas.
The lockplate might be original
The swivels are modern
The barrel is "off" with markings not being typical/correct
The marking on the stock don't match the lockplate. And are most likely new.

So most likely this is a partially defarbed replica?