Southern unionism

[atlantis]

Would southern unionism have faded away if there had been no conscription? Is it not fair to view southern unionism as merely a reaction to conscription after the enactment of the first conscript law in contrast to the southern unionism that existed during the debates over secession.
Southern unionists also felt the harsh hand of union troops as they the ravaged the land, plundering/burning.

 

[archieclement]

LOl, its really comical how you try to turn back what you are doing and try to accuse others of doing it. Clearly in my prior post I showed I did not say what you said I said. And when confronted with that fact you go "nuuh. you did!" So predictable.

"And the only one suggesting they were moral equals is you."

From this I take it you admit that the south were not the moral equals of the north, so I will count that as at least something. Although I do find it very comical that you want to make the ludicrous claim that I think the USA and the CSA are moral equals. Further proof of your go to move of accusing people of doing exactly what you do and putting words in people's mouths they never said.

I take by now, you really have nothing to offer, other then pointless games.

 

[leftyhunter]

Would southern unionism have faded away if there had been no conscription? Is it not fair to view southern unionism as merely a reaction to conscription after the enactment of the first conscript law in contrast to the southern unionism that existed during the debates over secession.
Southern unionists also felt the harsh hand of union troops as they the ravaged the land, plundering/burning.

Again as pointed out earlier there were Southern Unionists enlisting in the Union Army as early as 1861 even at great risk to themselves.
Conscription was inevitable for the Confederacy as they had a smaller demographic base to replace heavy losses . Both Confederate and Union troops requistioned what ever supplies were needed. That is a feature not a bug of warfare especisly in the 19th Century.
Leftyhunter

 

[19thGeorgia]

How many Southern "Unionists" were drafted?

 

[G Low]

I'm sure there were secessionist in union states as well as unionists in secession states. @leftyhunter, you are correct in that it took a lot of courage to cross border lines and fight against your own people. In my family, most were fighting for his brother, cousin, father and/or son that was fighting right beside him. My ggg grandfather Douglas Eckles (age 50)was conscripted along with his son Jeremiah (age 17) in 1864. They were part of Joe Brown's Pets and did not leave the state. The war came to them. My gggg John Henry Wilson had 2 sons in the 35 Ga. Infantry. John served in the 42 Ga. Infantry along with his third son. My ggg grandfather was his fourth son born in 1860 was too young to serve. My other ggg grandfather Reagan (also too young to serve) had three brothers all in the 35 Ga infantry One came back disabled, the other two didn't. My Avatar was killed (Gg grandfather). His brother served.

 

[damYankee]

Beside the Southern Unionist there were many Southerners who were apathetic about the conflict in general.
Also more Southern Unionist from border states enlisted in the Union, but that may have been because of the challenges facing Unionist from Deep South states.

Many southerners, simply apathetic about the war and the issues for which it was fought, sought to avoid any military involvement or dissented against the often intrusive Confederate policies toward civilians. But neither of these stances made one a true Unionist. Most scholars agree that sheer disaffection and neutrality toward the war are not characteristics of Unionism. Perhaps the best definition comes from William G. "Parson" Brownlow of East Tennessee, one of the most prominent southern Unionists, who cited three essential traits of a true Unionist: an "uncompromising devotion" to the Union; an "unmitigated hostility" to the Confederacy; and a willingness to risk life and property "in defense of the Glorious Stars and Stripes.

The geographical distribution of committed southern Unionists is revealed in part by who joined the Union army. In his book Lincoln's Loyalists, historian Richard Current indicates that as many as 100,000 white Southerners became Union soldiers at some point over the course of the war, and that 70 percent of those came from Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia. Georgia supplied fewer Union troops than did any other Southern state except South Carolina. Approximately 400 Georgians enlisted in Union military units, compared with around 5,000 in North Carolina, more than 3,000 in Alabama, and a remarkable 42,000 in Tennessee.

https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/history-archaeology/unionists/

 

[DanSBHawk]

Here is an example of how southern unionists were treated by the confederates. Men were hanged. Both men and women were shot. Houses were burned down and the neighbors were warned not to feed or shelter the unionist families or else they would suffer the same fate. The Union army in Corinth was feeding "some one hundred of these families."

 

[leftyhunter]

I'm sure there were secessionist in union states as well as unionists in secession states. @leftyhunter, you are correct in that it took a lot of courage to cross border lines and fight against your own people. In my family, most were fighting for his brother, cousin, father and/or son that was fighting right beside him. My ggg grandfather Douglas Eckles (age 50)was conscripted along with his son Jeremiah (age 17) in 1864. They were part of Joe Brown's Pets and did not leave the state. The war came to them. My ggg John Henry Wilson had 2 sons in the 35 Ga. Infantry. John served in the 42 Ga. Infantry along with his third son. My ggg grandfather was his fourth son born in 1860 was too young to serve. My other ggg grandfather Reagan (also too young to serve) had three brothers all in the 35 Ga infantry One came back disabled, the other two didn't. My Avatar was killed (Gg grandfather). His brother served.

I don't think Southern Unionists thought in terms of " own people ". Most Unionists didn't own slaves and were of much lower income then the slave owners that looked down upon them . There were of course exceptions to the rule as sone Union officers actually owned slaves such as Major General George Thomas and Brig. General Oden Guitar of the Missouri Staye Milita which is a misnomer as the MSM was actually a full time paid federal force mostly used for counterinsurgency.
Leftyhunter

 

[G Low]

I don't think Southern Unionists thought in terms of " own people ". Most Unionists didn't own slaves and were of much lower income then the slave owners that looked down upon them . There were of course exceptions to the rule as sone Union officers actually owned slaves such as Major General George Thomas and Brig. General Oden Guitar of the Missouri Staye Milita which is a misnomer as the MSM was actually a full time paid federal force mostly used for counterinsurgency.
Leftyhunter

I was talking to one of my cousins from Northern Alabama on ancestry. I asked her if she knew much about her CW heritage and she said her gg grandmother had to run the farm while her husband and sons left to fight for the union. She said they were hassled by confederates. I then told her she was also kin to NBF. She said she was proud of him too.

 

[G Low]

Look at Stonewall, and Lee, don't know if they were secessionist or not but they didn't want to fight against Virginia. And Stonewall's sister said she'd rather see her brother dead than see him lead the confederacy to Victory. She was pretty cold. Stonewall was from West Virginia, his home seceded from Virginia to join the anti secession side.

 

[atlantis]

Here is an example of how southern unionists were treated by the confederates. Men were hanged. Both men and women were shot. Houses were burned down and the neighbors were warned not to feed or shelter the unionist families or else they would suffer the same fate. The Union army in Corinth was feeding "some one hundred of these families."

View attachment 575613

This looks like a pretty soft approach by confederates

 

[archieclement]

I was talking to one of my cousins from Northern Alabama on ancestry. I asked her if she knew much about her CW heritage and she said her gg grandmother had to run the farm while her husband and sons left to fight for the union. She said they were hassled by confederates. I then told her she was also kin to NBF. She said she was proud of him too

Shrewd families often played both sides. Particularly if crossing lines. If you went north or south to serve.......your property would be likely eventually been seized as no one was paying taxes, so often some family member would remain on the other side to watch and maintain property.

My GGGF arranged for his property and slaves go to his father during the war, so everything was there when he returned, including some slaves who stayed with farm postwar. So he came out the war whether well financially.

 

[atlantis]

The southern unionists appear to have miscalculated the necessity of using violence early on if they were going to survive. Relying on the goodwill of neighbors was risky strategy that did not work.

 

[atlantis]

Here is an example of how southern unionists were treated by the confederates. Men were hanged. Both men and women were shot. Houses were burned down and the neighbors were warned not to feed or shelter the unionist families or else they would suffer the same fate. The Union army in Corinth was feeding "some one hundred of these families."

View attachment 575613

Was anyone brought to justice for these outrages against loyal citizens?

 

[archieclement]

The southern unionists appear to have miscalculated the necessity of using violence early on if they were going to survive. Relying on the goodwill of neighbors was risky strategy that did not work.

Using violence would been worse, why most crossed lines to side they support, or stayed silent. Fighting either side behind "lines" would often simply be punishable by death.

In most cases once war was over, no one was prosecuted for prior events. As really would often been no crime.

 

[JerryD]

Here is an example of how southern unionists were treated by the confederates. Men were hanged. Both men and women were shot. Houses were burned down and the neighbors were warned not to feed or shelter the unionist families or else they would suffer the same fate. The Union army in Corinth was feeding "some one hundred of these families."

View attachment 575613

I highly recommend "Tainted Breeze, The Great Hanging at Gainesville Texas" for more info on how Unionists were treated in the CSA.

Tainted Breeze: The Great Hanging at Gainesville, Texas, 1862 (Conflicting Worlds: New Dimensions of the American Civil War): McCaslin, Richard B.: 9780807122198: Amazon.com: Books

Tainted Breeze: The Great Hanging at Gainesville, Texas, 1862 (Conflicting Worlds: New Dimensions of the American Civil War) [McCaslin, Richard B.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Tainted Breeze: The Great Hanging at Gainesville, Texas, 1862 (Conflicting Worlds: New...

www.amazon.com

"In the early morning hours of October 1, 1862, state militia arrested more than two hundred alleged Unionists from five North Texas counties and brought them to Gainesville, the seat of Cooke County. In the ensuing days, at least forty-four of the prisoners were hanged, and several other men were lynched in neighboring communities. This event proved to be the grisly climax of a heritage of violence and vigilantism in North Texas that began before the Civil War and lasted long afterward."

The book is about more than the Great Hanging, although that is certainly a major event. Unionists were routinely being hunted and hanged in this portion of Texas.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Was anyone brought to justice for these outrages against loyal citizens?

Good question. I don't know.

 

[damYankee]

The southern unionists appear to have miscalculated the necessity of using violence early on if they were going to survive. Relying on the goodwill of neighbors was risky strategy that did not work.

There were many who miscalculated the level of violence that was coming

 

[archieclement]

Was anyone brought to justice for these outrages against loyal citizens?

The only case I can even think of was George Maddox was tried in Kansas postwar for a murder in Lawrence Massacre, he was acquited in 10 minutes by Kansas jury.

The hurdles would been many, the primary federal charge would been treason, which most had amnesty or pardons for.

Murder/theft are primarily state charges, no charges were brought if the executed were considered traitors to the state, even postwar the jury would been largely those who did or supported executions.

In Maddox case he had people claim he was never there, creating reasonable doubt I suppose......but i imagine the thought of the jury might have been leave the past in the past, or run risk of being visited by former guerrillas in the middle of the night. Think that was attitude of many, they were tired of war and killing, so drop the tit for tats that might well draw a response in return.

Its rather remarkable here in Missouri where was arguably most violent and divided, how quickly things mainly returned to normal.

 

[leftyhunter]

Was anyone brought to justice for these outrages against loyal citizens?

A handful at most such has Champ Feurgson in Tennessee who was a Confederate guerrilla. Post ACW in Missouri there were a few revenge killings such has Archie Clement. Post ACW the Missouri Bushwackers openly met for reunions.
Leftyhunter

 

[limestone1863]

I'm sure there were secessionist in union states as well as unionists in secession states. @leftyhunter, you are correct in that it took a lot of courage to cross border lines and fight against your own people. In my family, most were fighting for his brother, cousin, father and/or son that was fighting right beside him. My ggg grandfather Douglas Eckles (age 50)was conscripted along with his son Jeremiah (age 17) in 1864. They were part of Joe Brown's Pets and did not leave the state. The war came to them. My gggg John Henry Wilson had 2 sons in the 35 Ga. Infantry. John served in the 42 Ga. Infantry along with his third son. My ggg grandfather was his fourth son born in 1860 was too young to serve. My other ggg grandfather Reagan (also too young to serve) had three brothers all in the 35 Ga infantry One came back disabled, the other two didn't. My Avatar was killed (Gg grandfather). His brother served.

"Ole" Joe Brown's ancestors came from upper east Tennessee. Just "sayin".