Southern unionism

atlantis

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Would southern unionism have faded away if there had been no conscription? Is it not fair to view southern unionism as merely a reaction to conscription after the enactment of the first conscript law in contrast to the southern unionism that existed during the debates over secession.
Southern unionists also felt the harsh hand of union troops as they the ravaged the land, plundering/burning.
 
Was anyone brought to justice for these outrages against loyal citizens?
After the war in upper east Tennessee, many ex-confederates were brought to trial & received some type of punishment. Many were sued & lost their property & left for more friendly southern country. Some returned after many years. The post war legal system harassed ex-conf. for quite a while.
Also, ex-Union soldiers grouped together served their justice at night on ex-confederate. Legal & otherwise, justice was upon the worst of offenders, but not for the average "acceptable" soldier.
 
There were many who miscalculated the level of violence that was coming
I am fully aware of my own vast naivety - but I never understood that level of violence - especially not out of a psychological perspective.

I mean I do understand some types of planters - tyrants in their own kingdoms, used to violence to enforce obeying
(but those didn't actively persecute southern Unionists - they had others, much poorer people to do it).

I understand a widespread scare of slave uprisings - but why then go after white southern unionists?

I understand patriotism for the Union - but why kill a person because "treasonous southern propaganda" in a northern state where such propaganda essentially was without any effect?

I understand northern soldiers being appalled when confronted with realities on plantations of the Deep South - but why at times such deep ingrained aggressivity towards all Southerners regardless of their class as traitors whose houses best were burned down?

All of those people were compatriots a relative short time before -
and most of those people were commoners and rarely directly involved with the question of slavery
- as they themselves owned no slaves (many Southerners)
or had no direct experiences with the dark sides of slavery (most Northerners).

I just don't get the motivation of that erupting violence. Do you?
 
After the war in upper east Tennessee, many ex-confederates were brought to trial & received some type of punishment. Many were sued & lost their property & left for more friendly southern country. Some returned after many years. The post war legal system harassed ex-conf. for quite a while.
Also, ex-Union soldiers grouped together served their justice at night on ex-confederate. Legal & otherwise, justice was upon the worst of offenders, but not for the average "acceptable" soldier.
 
I am fully aware of my own vast naivety - but I never understood that level of violence - especially not out of a psychological perspective.

I mean I do understand some types of planters - tyrants in their own kingdoms, used to violence to enforce obeying
(but those didn't actively persecute southern Unionists - they had others, much poorer people to do it).

I understand a widespread scare of slave uprisings - but why then go after white southern unionists?

I understand patriotism for the Union - but why kill a person because "treasonous southern propaganda" in a northern state where such propaganda essentially was without any effect?

I understand northern soldiers being appalled when confronted with realities on plantations of the Deep South - but why at times such deep ingrained aggressivity towards all Southerners regardless of their class as traitors whose houses best were burned down?

All of those people were compatriots a relative short time before -
and most of those people were commoners and rarely directly involved with the question of slavery
- as they themselves owned no slaves (many Southerners)
or had no direct experiences with the dark sides of slavery (most Northerners).

I just don't get the motivation of that erupting violence. Do you?
Well particularly in areas of mixed control each sides civilians feared the other sides civilians informing on them.

In areas of solid control there's often unreasonable fear of fifth column. In the north see frequent fear of nebulous KGC. Gainesville some had formed a Union league. As long as there's sides, there's fear of spying, informing, supporting the other side. Why i think it rather quickly ended in most states outside reconstruction once war ended, and sides is removed.

My state as a Union state wasnt under reconstruction, but could see areas that were somewhat still having sides freedmans bureau/radical republicans versus former confederates.
 
Last edited:
Once democrats regained control starting with John Brown, was there any backlash the other way?

Would assume persecution of former confederates also contributed to democrat militia/guerrilla such as various different southern paramilitaries.
 
 
Southern unionists continued to be persecuted during the post-war, and they only gained some political allies when the freedmen were given the vote.

No doubt that ex-confederates were looked down on in the former unionist areas of the south. But in the rest of the south, it was the ex-unionists who were in the minority and they suffered because of it.
 
@archieclement , Are you referring to a scallawag ? a white Southerner who collaborated with northern Republicans during Reconstruction, often for personal profit. The term was used derisively by white Southern Democrats who opposed Reconstruction legislation.
Scallywags and carpetbaggers.

I imagine it was worse in south where reconstruction essentially continued sides.

Missouri being a Union state wasnt really under military reconstruction. Wartime Radicals tried unconstitutional Drake constitution postwar. But like in south as Democrats became enfranchised they quickly lost power.
 
Scallywags and carpetbaggers.

I imagine it was worse in south where reconstruction essentially continued sides.

Missouri being a Union state wasnt really under military reconstruction. Wartime Radicals tried unconstitutional Drake constitution postwar. But like in south as Democrats became enfranchised they quickly lost power.

Scallywags were southerners and carpetbaggers were northerners .
 
I understand a widespread scare of slave uprisings - but why then go after white southern unionists?

Apparently a fear of political opposition as much as any actual slave insurrections. W.L. Yancey in 1858 had laid out the policy, even before the war, that it was necessary to dissuade the public from any possible hope in a national or even sectional party, or government, but only in Southern independence...

1772740875213.webp


Unionism was equated in the South with "servile insurrection" or "black" republicanism. John Townsend in 1860...

1772742580516.webp


An independent Southern Confederacy was floated as the singular answer to both concerns.

By 1861, those in the Southern States not particularly concerned about the incoming Lincoln administration, were described in the papers etc. as "cooperationists"...

1772889976178.webp


Many in the South were hopeful that abiding the "secession" movement would calm the situation, disperse the vigilance committees and regulators, and dissuade any more John Brown invasions from the North.

After the commencement of the war, anyone inclined to consider the authority of the Lincoln administration was described as "Unionist" or worse, and subject to the war powers of the Confederacy.



I understand patriotism for the Union - but why kill a person because "treasonous southern propaganda" in a northern state where such propaganda essentially was without any effect?

The Fugitive slave act of 1850 had angered many in the northern States. The outrage increasing, beyond the abolitionists, with increased suspicion many of those apprehended and extradited Southward, were not actually slaves.

1772718647472.webp


There were several incidents in the 1850s in the North. Among the most violent being the Christiana, PA riot of 1851, in which a Maryland slave owner was killed in attempting to arrest to black men he claimed as runaways.

1772730216194.webp


In 1854 a mob attempting to liberate Anthony Burns, who had been arrested as a fugitive slave under the fugitive slave act, killed a guard at the Boston Courthouse, named Mr. Batchelder.


Before even that fugitive slave act controversy in the North, there had been many violent incidents in opposition to emancipation and abolition ideals in the North in the decades before. Like the 1834 New York anti-emancipationist riots, the 1835 anti-emancipationist riot in Boston, and the burning of the Philadelphia Hall for hosting an emancipation meeting in 1838... These had all been suppressed by State Militia after more or less significant damage...

1772727369767.webp


In that same period, there were lynch mobs acting across the South against any emancipation/abolition sentiment...

1772728606274.webp


There was also the breaking of the US Mail to search any letters and papers from the Northern States for any abolition sentiments. In Charleston a bonfire was made of northern papers....

1772728809029.webp


Subsequent State laws were enacted in the South to search the mail for "incendiary" publications, and to punish the receivers of the same. A bill was floated in the US Government for the Post Office itself to remove anti-slavery mail. Senator Thomas Morris of Ohio opposed any federal laws to that effect, speaking in 1836:

1772729064039.webp

1772729160416.webp


No such act was passed, and the failure to censor the mail continued to be a complaint in the Southern States through the 1850s. In 1861, the Confederate Government was formed and claimed to be the means to finally block "incendiary" publications... from either the Northern States, or from among Southerners...


1772732003051.webp



The Kansas war of 1854-1858 pitted anti and pro slavery forces against each other in the struggle over the Territory's Statehood in a shooting conflict. The "Jayhawkers" against establishing slavery in Statehood, and the "border Ruffians" supporting it.

1772741438021.webp

1772741463068.webp


The John Brown raid on Harper's Ferry in 1859 brought things to a head. In the Southern States, anyone from the North, or supporting what were being called northern principles, was suspect...

1772890362584.webp


In the election of 1860 there was a considerable amount of tough talk, and even some street violence in cities across the country. In the secession period afterward, the violence was evidently increasing, particularly in the South, in the aftermath of the election. The secession movement increasing in popularity therein.

In the North meanwhile persons supporting the southern secession in 1861 were cowed into silence...

1772754113895.webp


Particularly after the battle of Fort Sumter. From New Jersey...

1772893017732.webp



1772895689675.webp



In the same period in the South, Northerners or persons accused of "northern" (Union) principles were targeted...

1772890556909.webp


1772890936195.webp


1772895485343.webp


1772895589554.webp


The secession movement promoted itself, in the South, as the means of solving all of the violence and disorder and concern, within the Southern States. But led to larger issues. President Lincoln's proclamation raising soldiers, after Fort Sumter, was described as the measure which united the South against external "coercion"...

1772896087904.webp


All that presaged the war. With war, any opposition to the Government could be viewed as seditious or even treasonous.

I understand northern soldiers being appalled when confronted with realities on plantations of the Deep South - but why at times such deep ingrained aggressivity towards all Southerners regardless of their class as traitors whose houses best were burned down?

War, generally speaking.

But particularly speaking, insurrectionary war.

Under the customary laws of war at the time, insurgent populations in civil war were not granted the same immunities from punishment and retaliation in war that an occupied foreign population was customarily accorded. In fact far from it. The US Government acted accordingly. In the first half of the war, there was debate among some US generals as to the subject. But it was incorporated into War Department General Orders No. 100 in 1863:

"Art. 151. The term rebellion is applied to an insurrection of large extent, and is usually a war between the legitimate government of a country and portions of provinces of the same who seek to throw off their allegiance to it and set up a government of their own."

Art. 156.
Common justice and plain expediency require that the military commander protect the manifestly loyal citizens, in revolted territories, against the hardships of the war as much as the common misfortune of all war admits.
The commander will throw the burden of the war, as much as lies within his power, on the disloyal citizens, of the revolted portion or province, subjecting them to a stricter police than the noncombatant enemies have to suffer in regular war; and if he deems it appropriate, or if his government demands of him that every citizen shall, by an oath of allegiance, or by some other manifest act, declare his fidelity to the legitimate government, he may expel, transfer, imprison, or fine the revolted citizens who refuse to pledge themselves anew as citizens obedient to the law and loyal to the government.
Whether it is expedient to do so, and whether reliance can be placed upon such oaths, the commander or his government have the right to decide.

Art. 157. Armed or unarmed resistance by citizens of the United States against the lawful movements of their troops is levying war against the United States, and is therefore treason."


On April 15, 1861 the President of the United States proclaimed the existence of an insurrection in several Southern States, calling for the "combinations" supporting it to disperse (which until 1865 they did not). From the 19th of April, a blockade of the States subject to those combinations was proclaimed, elevating it to the state of war. From July 13, 1861 Congress acted to allow the President to determine which States or parts of States were subject to insurrection. The President, under that act, proclaimed the same on August 16, 1861...


The President proclaimed the conclusion of the insurrection/rebellion in 1866. The US courts recognized the conflict as a national, "public war" involving the whole citizenry of the country...

1772731508079.webp

1772731537567.webp


During the period of the national public war, any opposition to the US Government by citizens in the loyal States could lead to arrest, etc. Opposition to the Government within the "insurrectionary" districts, or "rebel states" was dealt with by Military law, etc.

In the South, General Henry A. Wise, CSA, late Governor of Virginia, observed in the 1870s that the secessionist movement, once given authority over the Southern States, had subjected the common citizens in the South to the fury of the general Government, by rendering them all "insurgents" against US authority, to the extent they abided their secession States.

He observes, if the Southern State Governments hadn't bothered about opposition to the US Constitution and Government, but otherwise did exactly as they did (under the right of revolution alone), in forming the Confederate Army, fighting the war, etc., then the common citizens of the Southern States would not have been subject to the vicissitudes of the war powers of the Union as an "insurgent" population forfeiting any claim to protection from the Government until they should submit...

1772719789758.webp

1772720237389.webp


Wise thought it had proven rather unpleasant that the Confederate politicians had rendered themselves safe from prosecution, by precipitating their constituents into a conflict where all were classed as insurgents, with, as he says, "the halter" about their necks.

Col. W.C. Oates of Alabama, later Governor of the State, however, observed, that the formation of the Southern Confederacy, precisely as if a foreign nation to the Union, had been a necessity to serve the purposes of the war, and to get the population to adhere to it, in opposition to the Union...

1772720848781.webp


On the Southern side, during the war, the Confederate Government ordered its forces to consider and treat the population of the US States as if a foreign population; but those within the Confederacy abiding of the US authorities, was considered treason against the Confederate States, etc. and "insurgents" against the CSA dealt with variously and sometimes harshly...

1772723882602.webp


The scale of Confederate military counter-insurgency operations in some districts is not generally appreciated, as it did not lead to battles significant enough to contend for space in the public prints or imagination.

All of those people were compatriots a relative short time before -
and most of those people were commoners and rarely directly involved with the question of slavery
- as they themselves owned no slaves (many Southerners)
or had no direct experiences with the dark sides of slavery (most Northerners).

From North Carolina...

1772724588048.webp


I just don't get the motivation of that erupting violence. Do you?

Col. Mosby of Virginia...

1772742091643.webp



George B. Catlin later reported of Detroit...

1772894152194.webp
 
Last edited:
Wow! Dear RedRover, I do thank you very much for all the time and effort you took to answer my naive questions.
I am always extremely impressed by the deep knowledge and insight of your contributions but especially this post did answer all my questions (and even more…). This is a most impressive travel back in times!
Just great!
 
@RedRover , man I think you nailed it, going to the secession convention a lot of southerners were unionist but at the convention they (the fire eaters and/or secessionists) labeled everyone either for secession or a coward…. My gg uncle Samuel Beck from Rabun county in north Georgia, went to the convention a unionist but signed for secession. When voting on the order of secession for Georgia each county sent two representatives all but six supported it. They signed in protest of policies but still supported the will of the people. One of the signers from my home county (Henry D. McDaniel) was elected captain of his regiment and was wounded and captured at Gettysburg. He later became Governor of Georgia. Don't know what happened to the ones who signed in protest.
IMG_2329.webp
 
Last edited:
@RedRover , man I think you nailed it, going to the secession convention a lot of southerners were unionist but at the convention they (the fire eaters and/or secessionists) labeled everyone either for secession or a coward…. My gg uncle Samuel Beck from Rabun county in north Georgia, went to the convention a unionist but signed for secession. When voting on the order of secession for Georgia each county sent two representatives all but six supported it. They signed in protest of policies but still supported the will of the people. One of the signers from my home county (Henry D. McDaniel) was elected captain of his regiment and was wounded and captured at Gettysburg. He later became Governor of Georgia. Don't know what happened to the ones who signed in protest.

J.P. Simmons of Gwinnett county (whose three Convention delegates all gave negative votes on the subject of secession), was apparently the author of that resolution to stick by their State...

1772971061140.webp

J.P. Simmons.

During the 1849-50 period when the Southern Rights movement pressed for secession conventions, Simmons was a leader of the "Georgia Platform" supporting the Compromise of 1850 against the secession interest...

1772971657577.webp


His biographers noted:

1772971781023.webp

1772971724161.webp


Mr. Simmons had a mangled right arm from an accident, which rendered it partly useless. And his wife was blind. He was a lawyer, and well considered in Georgia politics among the common folks. In the secession convention of 1861, he was one of three delegates by Gwinnett, where Unionists were not cowed from attending the polls...

1772972150971.webp

1772972293932.webp


Simmons took no part in the war, though afterwards declined to take the "Ironclad oath..." given his son had been in the Confederate service as major of the 3rd Battalion of Georgia Sharpshooters...

1772973035470.webp



Along with 1861 co-signer Davis Welchel, Simmons later participated in the 1865 reconstruction Convention which repudiated secession and outlawed slavery in the State of Georgia...

1772974763804.webp
 
J.P. Simmons of Gwinnett county (whose three Convention delegates all gave negative votes on the subject of secession), was apparently the author of that resolution to stick by their State...

View attachment 575987
J.P. Simmons.

During the 1849-50 period when the Southern Rights movement pressed for secession conventions, Simmons was a leader of the "Georgia Platform" supporting the Compromise of 1850 against the secession interest...

View attachment 575989

His biographers noted:

View attachment 575991
View attachment 575990

Mr. Simmons had a mangled right arm from an accident, which rendered it partly useless. And his wife was blind. He was a lawyer, and well considered in Georgia politics among the common folks. In the secession convention of 1861, he was one of three delegates by Gwinnett, where Unionists were not cowed from attending the polls...

View attachment 575992
View attachment 575993

Simmons took no part in the war, though afterwards declined to take the "Ironclad oath..." given his son had been in the Confederate service as major of the 3rd Battalion of Georgia Sharpshooters...

View attachment 575994


Along with 1861 co-signer Davis Welchel, Simmons later participated in the 1865 reconstruction Convention which repudiated secession and outlawed slavery in the State of Georgia...

View attachment 575995
Simmons and Winn among others were also slave owners too . I wonder if they felt the same after the EP? Samuel Beck also had slaves too he was farming the war woman valley east of Clayton Ga. He got most of his land from fighting in the Indians in Fla.
 

Learn About Us
About CivilWarTalk
Contact the Webmaster
Meet the Staff
Link to CivilWarTalk
Join Our Community
Register
Browse Forums
View Today's Discussions
Search the Forum
Get Help
FAQ
Student Guide
Forum Rules & Etiquette
Copyright / DMCA

     Contact Us CivilwarTalk on Facebook CivilWarTalk on YouTube CivilWarTalk on Twitter RSS Feed

Bringing the American Civil War and More to Life.
© 1999 - , CIVILWARTALK, LLC - Site Version 10.0

SlaveryTalk.com - SecessionTalk.com - CivilWarTalk.com - ReconstructionTalk.com
Back
Top