Some Confederate Cavalry firearms.

[Southern Articifer]

I've been meaning to post this piece for a while. Here are some good examples of original Confederate carbines in addition to the Smith shown on the Personalized weapons thread. First is a M1842 .69 cal. smoothbore musket with the barrel cut down to 35 1/4". This one is marked Springfield 1847. Note the nice work. The forward band has been neatly moved back. Also, note the re-arrangement of the forward band spring. This distinctive work was done at the Macon G.A. armory. About 4,000 of these were done there. Some were issued to artillery units as well. Next is a M1841 Hall rifle. These were made in percussion. This one is marked on its receiver: "H.Ferry, U.S., 1842" in three lines. These are .052 cal. rifled with 7 groves with a 1 in 80 twist. This one is a type 2 variant of the 41 Halls. It's barrel has been cut to 21 1/2 ". The front barrel band has been neatly moved back and the middle band has been proportionately move back, also. We know that the Fayetteville, NC arsenal altered between 623 and 704 Hall rifles - most of them were M1819s, but there were some M1841s listed too. This one shows the quality of alteration done at Fayetteville. Also, Fayetteville is the only documented cut down for M1841 Halls. However, we'll never know for sure if this is one of them? We know that the majority of the Fayetteville altered Hall carbines were issued to the 1st and 2nd North Carolina Cavalry. Work on altering the carbines began in August of 1861. This next carbine is probably the most interesting. It used to be a M1840 North/Hall carbine - one of 950 Hall rifles and carbines owned by the state of Virginia. It was decided by council to have all 950 rebuilt into muzzleloaders. This work was done by the shops of Read & Watson of Danville, Virginia. The work was started in 1862 and completed in 1863. I've not found any unit issue on these other than correspondence between Read & Watson and various Calvary officers as to deliveries of the guns. These carbines are now days called R&Ds. This one is .052 smoothbore with a 21 1/16" barrel as per the original North /Hall. It retains the original sights, barrel bands and band springs, trigger guard, butt plate and all the wood screws. The lock frame is most ingenious and only uses the Hall main spring. The rest is totally new made for the gun. The frame itself is made of brass and machined to accept the parts. Last are a first and second model Griswold & Gunderson. These are brass frame .036cal (closer to .380), 6 shot pistols then called Navy caliber repeaters. Made at Griswoldville, GA from 1862-1864? I've seen one with a serial numbering in the high 3900 range. These saw very hard use. Today there's about 115 known surviving examples. I could write an entire post just on these. All the pieces shown here are still in active live fire use. Shooting these have given me much insight to the real handling, loading and maintenance of these weapons as well as the ammunition. That's all for now.

 

[Patrick H]

Beautiful condition! Thanks for showing them to us.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Wouldn't that be "Griswold & Gunnison?"
J.

 

[Michael W.]

Beautiful Specimens!! Love It!!

 

[Private Watkins]

Really nice... thanks for sharing with us!

 

[Southern Articifer]

Wouldn't that be "Griswold & Gunnison?"
J.

Yes, even after all the years of being around theses pistols, I still have a terrible habit of mispronouncing the Griswold & Gunnison name as you have noted. My colleagues also frequently correct me as well on this point . Hope the error doesn't detract from the rest of the post.

 

[Camp Randall Armory]

Very impressive! I actually just finished reading "Confederate Carbines and Musketoons" by Murphy. It your opinion, was it better to convert Hall Rifles to muzzleloaders or keep them as breachloaders?

 

[originalrebelyell]

Very nice thank you

 

[Southern Articifer]

Very impressive! I actually just finished reading "Confederate Carbines and Musketoons" by Murphy. It your opinion, was it better to convert Hall Rifles to muzzleloaders or keep them as breachloaders?

That's a great question. I believe the answer is no. Here's why. The Hall firearms are actually a very well designed and a sound gun. The prejudice against them arose because of inadequate training in their use well before the war. The infantry and militia that were issued these guns were given little instruction on proper handling and the required maintenance of them. The Dragoon Companies, by comparison, that used the carbine version of the Hall and North made guns had very few complaints. They were all drilled in their use and practice firing was part of their routine. They were also taught how to maintain their Halls. At the start of the Civil War, the governing body of Virginia remembered these discrediting accounts and decided to have their Halls re-worked in to muzzleloaders. In doing so, they tied up badly needed weapons in this rebuilding process, nearly a year. There's another issue that makes this a not so good idea. They had to make new ammunition for the re-worked Halls. The Hall, being a breechloader, fires a .526 ball into a .520 bore, so all of Virginia's supply of Hall ammunition being .526 could not be muzzle loaded into the .520 bore of the new Reed&Watsons made from the Halls. In shooting the Reed & Watson carbine, I have found it would load with a .515 to .518 ball. I've often wondered if the rifled R&Ds used a .518 minie ball instead of the round ball used in the smooth bore R&D carbines. Have any collectors ever seen a minie ball with 16 groves on it. That's what a minie ball fired from a Hall barrel would like. The state of Vir. probably sent their Hall ammunition to a state that used it to supply their units that were issued Halls. The other reason, the Reed & Watson guns are very light and graceful, nearly the contours of a fine sporting gun. I have found that the carbine being so light, (maybe 4 1/2 lbs.) is easily moved off target from lack of weight resistance. None the less, it is an effective weapon. Just a bit frail for military use. Having said all this, I still think they're an ingenious and very historic firearm and they did get used. If I had to go into battle for real, I'll take the Hall. But since I don't have to, I very much enjoy shooting this carbine and will continue to work with it to see if I can tighten up the groups when shooting. I will add that southern cavalry units found their cut down Hall rifles an excellent weapon. Being breechloaders, they're well suited for mounted troops.

 

[william lannon]

I've been meaning to post this piece for a while. Here are some good examples of original Confederate carbines in addition to the Smith shown on the Personalized weapons thread. First is a M1842 .69 cal. smoothbore musket with the barrel cut down to 35 1/4". This one is marked Springfield 1847. Note the nice work. The forward band has been neatly moved back. Also, note the re-arrangement of the forward band spring. This distinctive work was done at the Macon G.A. armory. About 4,000 of these were done there. Some were issued to artillery units as well. Next is a M1841 Hall rifle. These were made in percussion. This one is marked on its receiver: "H.Ferry, U.S., 1842" in three lines. These are .052 cal. rifled with 7 groves with a 1 in 80 twist. This one is a type 2 variant of the 41 Halls. It's barrel has been cut to 21 1/2 ". The front barrel band has been neatly moved back and the middle band has been proportionately move back, also. We know that the Fayetteville, NC arsenal altered between 623 and 704 Hall rifles - most of them were M1819s, but there were some M1841s listed too. This one shows the quality of alteration done at Fayetteville. Also, Fayetteville is the only documented cut down for M1841 Halls. However, we'll never know for sure if this is one of them? We know that the majority of the Fayetteville altered Hall carbines were issued to the 1st and 2nd North Carolina Cavalry. Work on altering the carbines began in August of 1861. This next carbine is probably the most interesting. It used to be a M1840 North/Hall carbine - one of 950 Hall rifles and carbines owned by the state of Virginia. It was decided by council to have all 950 rebuilt into muzzleloaders. This work was done by the shops of Read & Watson of Danville, Virginia. The work was started in 1862 and completed in 1863. I've not found any unit issue on these other than correspondence between Read & Watson and various Calvary officers as to deliveries of the guns. These carbines are now days called R&Ds. This one is .052 smoothbore with a 21 1/16" barrel as per the original North /Hall. It retains the original sights, barrel bands and band springs, trigger guard, butt plate and all the wood screws. The lock frame is most ingenious and only uses the Hall main spring. The rest is totally new made for the gun. The frame itself is made of brass and machined to accept the parts. Last are a first and second model Griswold & Gunderson. These are brass frame .036cal (closer to .380), 6 shot pistols then called Navy caliber repeaters. Made at Griswoldville, GA from 1862-1864? I've seen one with a serial numbering in the high 3900 range. These saw very hard use. Today there's about 115 known surviving examples. I could write an entire post just on these. All the pieces shown here are still in active live fire use. Shooting these have given me much insight to the real handling, loading and maintenance of these weapons as well as the ammunition. That's all for now.
View attachment 92749View attachment 92750

 

[william lannon]

hi I have one similar 1822 springfield dated 1837 cut to 351/4 no front spring just nose cap no bayonet lug #39 on back of all parts been heavily clean no outward marks a little of the eagle left what do you think it might be