Snipers

[oldreb1343]

was there ever a time where a sniper during the civil war would take the rank off the officer he just killed and wear it around as a trophy

 

[James B White]

I doubt it. For one thing, he'd have to get to the officer. That means the officer would need to fall on the field, not be removed, and the sniper's line would need to overrun the enemy line. Also, while shoulderboards would be relatively easy to cut off, Confederate collar insignia would be a bit more difficult, and both would need resewn, and, well, just look odd. Early in the war, it would be especially confusing, when uniforms weren't standardized and at least some Confederates wore shouldboards. I just don't know if the insignia itself would be the best trophy anyway--a sword or pistol might be the first thought. The whole idea just sounds kind of off-the-wall, but watch--sure as I say that, somebody will come up with half a dozen diary entries of the exact thing happening.

Any particular reason for asking? Any circumstance where you suspect this might have happened?

 

[Robert Gray]

It was reported that a Union soldier removed Garnett's rank insignia and sword at Gettysburg which may account for the fact that his body was never identified.

 

[Bob Owen]

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend!

 

[redbob]

To paraphrase a saying from WWI-soldiers fight for many reasons- Americans fight for souvenirs.

 

[gary]

I've read hundreds of accounts and not once have I read that someone would wear a trophy of their victim whom they killed from a position of concealment or long distance. First it was difficult to examine the victim if they were within the opponent's line. Second, there were more important things like survival. Third, uniform regulations would prohibit it. Let's not forget that sharpshooters were not above army regulations (of either side).

 

[johan_steele]

The term sniper is not correct for the ACW, its a modern term that has no place w/ the ACW soldier. Someone likes too much hollywood.

 

[oldreb1343]

The term sniper is not correct for the ACW, its a modern term that has no place w/ the ACW soldier. Someone likes too much hollywood.

the earliest accounts of the word sniper comes from a skillful hunter who hunted a snipe and doubled as sniper in 1801 brittish india as time moved on a man who was skillful with a rilfe was known as a sniper coming the the aerican civil war the sharp shooter got nicknames of snipers thank you

 

[Greg Taylor]

the earliest accounts of the word sniper comes from a skillful hunter who hunted a snipe and doubled as sniper in 1801 brittish india as time moved on a man who was skillful with a rilfe was known as a sniper coming the the aerican civil war the sharp shooter got nicknames of snipers thank you

I've never seen the term "sniper" used in any Civil War correspondence I have read. The term is "sharpshooter" and they were almost universally despised by the rank and file soldiers.

 

[AUG]

He couldn't just take the shoulderboards or the officer's uniform for himself and immediately take the rank of an officer. He'd have to rise to the rank of an officer himself and it wasn't common for an officer to be a sharpshooter. If they needed a uniform they'd take one from a private because as said, uniform regulations wouldn't allow a private to wear an officer's uniform.

 

[johan_steele]

the earliest accounts of the word sniper comes from a skillful hunter who hunted a snipe and doubled as sniper in 1801 brittish india as time moved on a man who was skillful with a rilfe was known as a sniper coming the the aerican civil war the sharp shooter got nicknames of snipers thank you

I'd love to see a legit source for that one. I've been reading period letters for the best part of 20 years and have never seen the term sniper, in any context. But I defer to Gary Yee the man who wrote the definitive work on the subject.

It sounds to me like someone is trying to justify something... farbalicious. Like a really bad Sharpshooter impression and there are more really bad ones than even passably good ones.

 

[redbob]

In period publications, they were referred to as "Sharpshooters" and their units were designated as such-example 1st and 2nd U.S.S.S. (1st and 2nd United States Sharp Shooters aka Berdan's Sharpshooters).

 

[Dave Wilma]

Given the scope of the American Civil War you can say just about anything that happened and it probably did. Collecting shoulder straps or collar tabs from dead enemies undoubtedly took place. If I was writing an historical novel I would have a man do that, but I would have some of his mates criticize him and some envy his callousness. An officer might even berate the act. As for a primary or secondary account you will have to do your own research and we all would be keen to learn the result.

In my novel the sharpshooter would be a quiet lad, probably a hunter back home, tapped for his marksmanship. He quickly learns that the "rush" of the hunt when extended to his fellow man is irresistible. Add to that his rage against an enemy that has killed his friends and neighbors and I have a real killer. He measures out his powder and casts his bullets. He keeps his rifle spotless and the sights safely wrapped until needed. He collects his trophies when he can and secrets them in his haversack. Heaven forbid he gets captured.

 

[gary]

I concur with Johan Steele. While "sniper" was been coined decades before the American Civil War, I've yet to read a contemporaneously written (and verified) use of the word by a Civil War soldier. There are some post-Civil War memoirs where "sniper" has been used, but these were penned after WW I made the word popular within the American vernacular. Even the Spanish-American War memoirs/diaries/journals use "sharpshooter" instead of "sniper" in their text.

Therefore I too refrain from using "sniper" when discussing the Civil War.

BTW, the American rifle tradition began with the Swiss-Germans who brought the rifle over with them. The shooting/ambushing tactics were taught the hard way to the colonists by the natives who weren't overjoyed at having to share the land with them.

 

[Dave Wilma]

was there ever a time where a sniper during the civil war would take the rank off the officer he just killed and wear it around as a trophy

I ran across an account in World on Fire which cites Henry Hore, a British subject serving the Union on May 3, 1963 near Fredericksburg. He and an officer named Hansard were riding to find more artillery to support the Union advance when they encountered Confederate cavalry. A trooper stabbed Hansard with a sword and when the trooper dismounted to strip Hansard of his shoulder straps, Hore shot the trooper dead. (Bernard Price, Sussex: People, Places, Things (London, 1975) p. 150)

 

[NFB22]

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend!

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance haha, great movie

 

[BillO]

I ran across an account in World on Fire which cites Henry Hore, a British subject serving the Union on May 3, 1963 near Fredericksburg. He and an officer named Hansard were riding to find more artillery to support the Union advance when they encountered Confederate cavalry. A trooper stabbed Hansard with a sword and when the trooper dismounted to strip Hansard of his shoulder straps, Hore shot the trooper dead. (Bernard Price, Sussex: People, Places, Things (London, 1975) p. 150)

I doubt that the man was actually interested in his straps so much as the rest of his kit.

 

[James B White]

The following seems to be the original letter Dwilma01's summary is based on, and it sounds as if the cavalryman was definitely interested in the shoulder straps. Certainly not a sniper, though, but at least it's an actual period example of someone trying to take shoulder straps as a trophy.

http://www.americancivilwar.asn.au/meet/2005_12_mtg_hore_ltr_trasc.htm

An officer by the name of Hansard, a first rate good hearted fellow, I should have liked you to have seem him Olivia a regular type of a South Carolina man with long hair flowing over his shoulders, a South man by birth but a good man for the Union, I think without exception the best looking man I ever saw, said: We will go together Harry, it will be safer". We rode along as fast as we could to the rear for we did not know how things were going on there, when just as we were thinking all safe, some of Mosby's cavalry that were scouting in our rear saw us and came down with a yell upon us. So thinking discretion the better part of valour, feeling quite confident that we should fall in with some of our Rear Guard in a few seconds I set Hansard the example of running away but he did not have such a good horse as mine and one of the Rebels was soon near enough to poor H. to call upon him to stop. He would not and the Rebel who was better mounted clutched at the bridle and then they had a struggle, their horses kicking, so that I could not get near enough to strike him well or shoot him with my revolver. He got the better of H. on the ground and drove his sword right into Hansard's chest. His horse had gone and he tore off his shoulder straps and shook them at me. I now felt as if he or I must be killed so taking a good aim at him, I had made up my mind I would kill him if I could I made my horse get so near that I was safe not to miss and I fired and dropped him dead, alongside poor H. This did not take 30 seconds, not near so long as it takes me to write. I sighted him along the barrel of my revolver and if I had not killed him the first time would have shot again for H. was a good friend to me.

 

[Shadow9216]

Maybe a distinction could be made between "trophies" (which are a personal reminder of the event) and collecting something as "proof" for substantiating a claim- someone wanting to prove he had killed an enemy officer, maybe to collect a bounty or to establish his prowess, could turn in the officer's effects, scraps of uniform, etc in evidence of his claim? But distinct from the notion suggested above, where a "sniper" is collecting bits from his victims out of a psychological need.

 

[major bill]

Maybe someone took trophies from one they had killed. A sniper would have to get to the officer he just kill. Usually the men of the now dead officer would have prevented this. The dead officer would have not just laid there until night or some other opportunity for the sniper to come get his trophies.

Major Bill
Company of Military Historians