How significant were dedicated snipers?

[Rhea Cole]

HOW SIGNIFICANT WERE DEDICATED SNIPERS?

Here on CWT there have been I don't know how many discussions about snipers. The Whitworth Rifle has been the object of much attention. There is one in the box complete with all its accoutrements, including dark green glasses, at the Civil War museum in Kennesaw GA. It is certainly a refined piece of workmanship. In the Army of Tennessee only the very best marksmen were entrusted with one of those precious beauties.

What made me ponder the question is a report by CPT William D. Humphries, Ordinance Officer, Army of Tennessee. In his accounting of the small arms ammunition issued between June 1, 1862 - March 30, 1865 there are some curiosities, 1,000 rifle & 1,680 musket flints accompanied by 86,600 .69 cal. British Smoothbore Balls & 953,000 .69 cal. smoothbore rnds are a testament to the antiques issued to state militias.

Given the ample discussion that the Whitworth Rifles generate, I was surprised to discover that only 400 rounds of the very specific hexagonal balls were issued by the Army of Tennessee. By way of comparison, on June 20, 1862 800 pikes were issued. On the far other end of the accuracy bell curve, 334,800 rounds of shotgun rnds were handed out. Even a rarity like the Dragoon Pistol was furnished with 52,000 rds.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Thanks to Charles Lemons who posted Humphries' report on the Western Theater in the Civil War forum on Nov 8th.

 

[Package4]

It is curious, as i have been reading accounts & essays on this subject there have been repeated references to how fouling was a generic problem associated with target rifles. As few as three shots could require washing out the bore.

Out of an excess of historical zeal I fired one shot too many with black powder. The next round might as well have been super glued 1/2 way down. My gunsmith friend finally removed it.

I relate this so that CWT members who haven't live fired muzzleloading long arms will understand how fouling would restrict target rifle rate of fire.

I have only handled a Whitworth once. I don't know anybody who has fired one. Hopefully a CWT has.

http://4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/enfield_cartridges_by_bruce_carins.pdf

British cartridges, both Enfield and Whitworth were greased/waxed to enable easier loading and less fouling. Tallow and bees wax were utilized along with a paper patch that allowed for more shots down range. I have both types of tubes around here somewhere and you can still see the heavy grease wax on the lower end of the tube. I'll see if I can't hunt them up.

 

[Sgt. Tyree]

Interesting:

Source:

I apologize that this is difficult to read the way it loaded but I don't know how to fix it.

 

[Stryker65]

Interesting:

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Source:

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Wow! That's an amazing resource!

 

[gary]

Plaster took my article published in The Military Collector and Historian (Company of Military Historians) on the black Confederate sharpshooter, including the legal reasoning behind how blacks could fight, without attribution to me & used it in his book.

Not to be egotistical, but his book has about 200 pages on the blackpowder era and mine has over 500 on the Civil War alone (plus a couple of hundred on the flintlock era). His section in that book on WW II is bigger than his CW era but my WW II book dwarfs his.

With respects to officers killed, we don't know. Was it deliberately aimed like in the case of Sedgwick or a stray (overshoot) shot like Reynolds at Gettysburg? No CSI back then. A good case is Berry Benson's brother, Blackwood, who borrowed a rifle and fired yonder. They later learned a mule was killed in a wagon park/animal corral. Blackwood's whitworth bolt or a stray? We don't know.

 

[Old Soldier]

Plaster took my article published in The Military Collector and Historian (Company of Military Historians) on the black Confederate sharpshooter, including the legal reasoning behind how blacks could fight, without attribution to me & used it in his book.

Not to be egotistical, but his book as about 200 pages on the blackpowder era and mine has over 500 on the Civil War alone (plus a couple of hundred on the flintlock era). His section in that book on WW II is bigger than his CW era but my WW II book dwarfs his.

With respects to officers killed, we don't know. Was it deliberately aimed like in the case of Sedgwick or a stray (overshoot) shot like Reynolds at Gettysburg? No CSI back then. A good case is Berry Benson's brother, Blackwood, who borrowed a rifle and fired yonder. They later learned a mule was killed in a wagon park/animal corral. Blackwood's whitworth bolt or a stray? We don't know.

That is the morale effect. You just don't know.

 

[gary]

Morale was discussed in the first book. It depends on the unit. If morale is shaky and the charismatic leader is lost, the unit breaks. If morale within the unit is high, the unit can become vengeful because of the loss of a beloved leader. Generally it's more of a small unit thing too. It didn't matter in Reynold's death. Iron Brigade kept on fighting and didn't run because of it (but they were eventually pushed back). VI Corps didn't skedaddle across the Potomac after Papa John was killed. Light Division didn't break because Black Bob Crauford was killed. I've plenty of examples of smaller units becoming demoralized and breaking after el jefe (boss man in espanol) is killed.

 

[Old Soldier]

Morale was discussed in the first book. It depends on the unit. If morale is shaky and the charismatic leader is lost, the unit breaks. If morale within the unit is high, the unit can become vengeful because of the loss of a beloved leader. Generally it's more of a small unit thing too. It didn't matter in Reynold's death. Iron Brigade kept on fighting and didn't run because of it (but they were eventually pushed back). VI Corps didn't skedaddle across the Potomac after Papa John was killed. Light Division didn't break because Black Bob Crauford was killed. I've plenty of examples of smaller units becoming demoralized and breaking after el jefe (boss man in espanol) is killed.

The distant marksmen did not know the mental state of the units. Any intelligence they would have was about the units' locations, not their battleworthiness, that was fairly obvious given the colors of the regiments. They recognised only their targets and most of that was by observation. Most of their targets were distinctively dressed or moved in a small formation by habit.

What followed a successful hit was purely coincidental. One story about a long cross-river shot claims it was set up because a group was working around a jetty on the opposite side for some reason, never fully explained. The marksman downed one man and fired at attempts to recover him. No one was seen to be hit but the group vanished - leaving the body.

On Dec. 5 1864, an unidentified Confederate soldier in Fort Sumter saw a Union soldier moving in Battery Gregg, 1390 yards away. The Southerner was likely using a Whitworth Rifle when he lined up his sights on the Union soldier and fired, killing him.

The sharpshooters amongst the first-line units knew that their longer range shots had a good chance of upsetting the newer units, but how did they know which were the 'newer units'? Lack of certain procedures and drill MAY have been observed, but as always, a certain amount of luck was involved - " ... if we do this, they MIGHT ... "

There is also much discussion on whether the significant shootings were by marksman - or a lucky 'high shot'. since a proportion of volleys were aimed high for some reason. Was it poorly trained sodiers not using sights properly? Since most federal rifles were not sighted beyond 500 yards, it seems unlikely, but we were not around observing at the time. Quite a few will have closed their eyes or turned their heads as they pressed (or jerked) the trigger - a fairly standard precaution for flintlock firing.

 

[gary]

The distant marksmen did not know the mental state of the units. Any intelligence they would have was about the units' locations, not their battleworthiness, that was fairly obvious given the colors of the regiments. They recognised only their targets and most of that was by observation. Most of their targets were distinctively dressed or moved in a small formation by habit.

Concur. One thing I also learned was that waving swords or riding white horses are both bullet magnet. As for below, there were actually two soldiers hit. See page 554 (chapter 11). Neither died.

On Dec. 5 1864, an unidentified Confederate soldier in Fort Sumter saw a Union soldier moving in Battery Gregg, 1390 yards away. The Southerner was likely using a Whitworth Rifle when he lined up his sights on the Union soldier and fired, killing him.

If the Park Service at Fort Moultrie posted it, it is because they read the tail end of chapter 11 where the soldier reporting the two hits was cited.

 

[Trooper "D"]

It is curious, as i have been reading accounts & essays on this subject there have been repeated references to how fouling was a generic problem associated with target rifles. As few as three shots could require washing out the bore.

Out of an excess of historical zeal I fired one shot too many with black powder. The next round might as well have been super glued 1/2 way down. My gunsmith friend finally removed it.

I relate this so that CWT members who haven't live fired muzzleloading long arms will understand how fouling would restrict target rifle rate of fire.

I have only handled a Whitworth once. I don't know anybody who has fired one. Hopefully a CWT has.

I have a re pro but havent fired it yet. I need to cast some bolts with the mold also. .40 round ball might work also and even modern cast bullets. The Whitworth bolt is so long and fits perfectly. I have a new La Mat as well that needs firing.
Health can sure tie a person down.
Cheers!

 

[Trooper "D"]

And if you were lucky your snipe hunt was for the real bird, and not the fake kind of snipe hunt!

I was introduced to the "snipe" hunt at a very early age by my brother and the neighbor kids.

 

[Trooper "D"]

HOW SIGNIFICANT WERE DEDICATED SNIPERS?

Here on CWT there have been I don't know how many discussions about snipers. The Whitworth Rifle has been the object of much attention. There is one in the box complete with all its accoutrements, including dark green glasses, at the Civil War museum in Kennesaw GA. It is certainly a refined piece of workmanship. In the Army of Tennessee only the very best marksmen were entrusted with one of those precious beauties.

What made me ponder the question is a report by CPT William D. Humphries, Ordinance Officer, Army of Tennessee. In his accounting of the small arms ammunition issued between June 1, 1862 - March 30, 1865 there are some curiosities, 1,000 rifle & 1,680 musket flints accompanied by 86,600 .69 cal. British Smoothbore Balls & 953,000 .69 cal. smoothbore rnds are a testament to the antiques issued to state militias.

Given the ample discussion that the Whitworth Rifles generate, I was surprised to discover that only 400 rounds of the very specific hexagonal balls were issued by the Army of Tennessee. By way of comparison, on June 20, 1862 800 pikes were issued. On the far other end of the accuracy bell curve, 334,800 rounds of shotgun rnds were handed out. Even a rarity like the Dragoon Pistol was furnished with 52,000 rds.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Thanks to Charles Lemons who posted Humphries' report on the Western Theater in the Civil War forum on Nov 8th.

We are still discussing them so there is that. I doubt sharpshooters made much of an impact except for those places where they actually pulled off a long shot or kept a gun from firing. I bet most of those 'snipers' did their work across battle lines and forts. Petersburg was known for accurate fire towards anything that moved for months on end. Mostly keeping heads down at a particular place. Was that ever done in concert with another group of soldiers to assault a position layed low by sniper fire? I'm not remembering anything like that. And when units rotated out they took their sharpshooters with them. Pickets had to renegotiate the frontline code with the new units not to shoot anyone relieving themselves or fetching food or water. I don't think there was anything so organized officially but the soldiers made those rules of engagement themselves for a short period of time. I don't see a huge impact there. Sharpshooting was nothing new. Better weapons available to soldiers to carry out that duty.
As far as issued ammo, it is my understanding that bullet molds came with the Whitworth rifles. Not one to teach but some with the order of a number of rifles. They sent British ammo as well. Did the Ordnance Department confiscate the molds and manufacture Confederate Whitworth ammo? I don't know but I don't think so. Also, anything that would fit down that hex bore would be fired I'm sure. Pistol balls. Not quite as accurate but still a cut above from that hex bore. Was there a smooth sided .41 round similar to Confederate Enfield rounds without grooves. A tall lead bullet to slide down the bore and fire without using up the British rounds? Those troops were expected to target shoot which uses up a lot of ammo. I just don't know. Interesting subject matter.
Cheers!

HOW SIGNIFICANT WERE DEDICATED SNIPERS?

Here on CWT there have been I don't know how many discussions about snipers. The Whitworth Rifle has been the object of much attention. There is one in the box complete with all its accoutrements, including dark green glasses, at the Civil War museum in Kennesaw GA. It is certainly a refined piece of workmanship. In the Army of Tennessee only the very best marksmen were entrusted with one of those precious beauties.

What made me ponder the question is a report by CPT William D. Humphries, Ordinance Officer, Army of Tennessee. In his accounting of the small arms ammunition issued between June 1, 1862 - March 30, 1865 there are some curiosities, 1,000 rifle & 1,680 musket flints accompanied by 86,600 .69 cal. British Smoothbore Balls & 953,000 .69 cal. smoothbore rnds are a testament to the antiques issued to state militias.

Given the ample discussion that the Whitworth Rifles generate, I was surprised to discover that only 400 rounds of the very specific hexagonal balls were issued by the Army of Tennessee. By way of comparison, on June 20, 1862 800 pikes were issued. On the far other end of the accuracy bell curve, 334,800 rounds of shotgun rnds were handed out. Even a rarity like the Dragoon Pistol was furnished with 52,000 rds.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Thanks to Charles Lemons who posted Humphries' report on the Western Theater in the Civil War forum on Nov 8th.

HOW SIGNIFICANT WERE DEDICATED SNIPERS?

Here on CWT there have been I don't know how many discussions about snipers. The Whitworth Rifle has been the object of much attention. There is one in the box complete with all its accoutrements, including dark green glasses, at the Civil War museum in Kennesaw GA. It is certainly a refined piece of workmanship. In the Army of Tennessee only the very best marksmen were entrusted with one of those precious beauties.

What made me ponder the question is a report by CPT William D. Humphries, Ordinance Officer, Army of Tennessee. In his accounting of the small arms ammunition issued between June 1, 1862 - March 30, 1865 there are some curiosities, 1,000 rifle & 1,680 musket flints accompanied by 86,600 .69 cal. British Smoothbore Balls & 953,000 .69 cal. smoothbore rnds are a testament to the antiques issued to state militias.

Given the ample discussion that the Whitworth Rifles generate, I was surprised to discover that only 400 rounds of the very specific hexagonal balls were issued by the Army of Tennessee. By way of comparison, on June 20, 1862 800 pikes were issued. On the far other end of the accuracy bell curve, 334,800 rounds of shotgun rnds were handed out. Even a rarity like the Dragoon Pistol was furnished with 52,000 rds.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Thanks to Charles Lemons who posted Humphries' report on the Western Theater in the Civil War forum on Nov 8th.

HOW SIGNIFICANT WERE DEDICATED SNIPERS?

Here on CWT there have been I don't know how many discussions about snipers. The Whitworth Rifle has been the object of much attention. There is one in the box complete with all its accoutrements, including dark green glasses, at the Civil War museum in Kennesaw GA. It is certainly a refined piece of workmanship. In the Army of Tennessee only the very best marksmen were entrusted with one of those precious beauties.

What made me ponder the question is a report by CPT William D. Humphries, Ordinance Officer, Army of Tennessee. In his accounting of the small arms ammunition issued between June 1, 1862 - March 30, 1865 there are some curiosities, 1,000 rifle & 1,680 musket flints accompanied by 86,600 .69 cal. British Smoothbore Balls & 953,000 .69 cal. smoothbore rnds are a testament to the antiques issued to state militias.

Given the ample discussion that the Whitworth Rifles generate, I was surprised to discover that only 400 rounds of the very specific hexagonal balls were issued by the Army of Tennessee. By way of comparison, on June 20, 1862 800 pikes were issued. On the far other end of the accuracy bell curve, 334,800 rounds of shotgun rnds were handed out. Even a rarity like the Dragoon Pistol was furnished with 52,000 rds.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Thanks to Charles Lemons who posted Humphries' report on the Western Theater in the Civil War forum on Nov 8th.

 

[67th Tigers]

As far as issued ammo, it is my understanding that bullet molds came with the Whitworth rifles. Not one to teach but some with the order of a number of rifles. They sent British ammo as well. Did the Ordnance Department confiscate the molds and manufacture Confederate Whitworth ammo? I don't know but I don't think so. Also, anything that would fit down that hex bore would be fired I'm sure. Pistol balls. Not quite as accurate but still a cut above from that hex bore. Was there a smooth sided .41 round similar to Confederate Enfield rounds without grooves. A tall lead bullet to slide down the bore and fire without using up the British rounds? Those troops were expected to target shoot which uses up a lot of ammo. I just don't know. Interesting subject matter.
Cheers!

Yes, and the purchase had 1,000 rounds delivered with each rifle.

The hex bore bullet was unnecessary. Cylindrical lead bullets fired just fine.