How significant were dedicated snipers?

[Rhea Cole]

HOW SIGNIFICANT WERE DEDICATED SNIPERS?

Here on CWT there have been I don't know how many discussions about snipers. The Whitworth Rifle has been the object of much attention. There is one in the box complete with all its accoutrements, including dark green glasses, at the Civil War museum in Kennesaw GA. It is certainly a refined piece of workmanship. In the Army of Tennessee only the very best marksmen were entrusted with one of those precious beauties.

What made me ponder the question is a report by CPT William D. Humphries, Ordinance Officer, Army of Tennessee. In his accounting of the small arms ammunition issued between June 1, 1862 - March 30, 1865 there are some curiosities, 1,000 rifle & 1,680 musket flints accompanied by 86,600 .69 cal. British Smoothbore Balls & 953,000 .69 cal. smoothbore rnds are a testament to the antiques issued to state militias.

Given the ample discussion that the Whitworth Rifles generate, I was surprised to discover that only 400 rounds of the very specific hexagonal balls were issued by the Army of Tennessee. By way of comparison, on June 20, 1862 800 pikes were issued. On the far other end of the accuracy bell curve, 334,800 rounds of shotgun rnds were handed out. Even a rarity like the Dragoon Pistol was furnished with 52,000 rds.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Thanks to Charles Lemons who posted Humphries' report on the Western Theater in the Civil War forum on Nov 8th.

 

[Sgt. Tyree]

I believe it depends on your definition of significant.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Probably relatively insignificant when considering the numbers listed above.

Perhaps more significant when considering things like officers specifically targeted and eliminated, artillery crews specifically targeted and neutralized, and the psychological effect of sharpshooting on morale.

This has always been the case with sniping in any war. It accounts for few casualties in the grand scheme. But it's effect sometimes far outweighs casualty numbers.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I believe it depends on your definition of significant.

Probably relatively insignificant when considering the numbers listed above.

Perhaps more significant when considering things like officers specifically targeted and eliminated, artillery crews specifically targeted and neutralized, and the psychological effect of sharpshooting on morale.

This has always been the case with sniping in any war. It accounts for few casualties in the grand scheme. But it's effect sometimes far outweighs casualty numbers.

Being sniped at was without a doubt frightening. What peeked my interest at first are the numerous instances of artillery batteries returning the favor. Famously, in Knoxville there is a house with a clear story where one of Longstreet's sharp shooters perched. The gunners at Fort Sanders silenced him with a glass showered direct hit. Makes me wonder what the life expectancy of a sharp shooter was.

 

[CowCavalry]

Being sniped at was without a doubt frightening. What peeked my interest at first are the numerous instances of artillery batteries returning the favor. Famously, in Knoxville there is a house with a clear story where one of Longstreet's sharp shooters perched. The gunners at Fort Sanders silenced him with a glass showered direct hit. Makes me wonder what the life expectancy of a sharp shooter was.

And EP Alexander personally sited an artillery piece to take out a nest of snipers in a barn at Fredericksburg.

 

[Stryker65]

Makes me wonder just how many generals were killed by snipers during the war. Excluding John Sedgwick and John Reynolds, I'm not sure any of the others counted much.

 

[R. Porter]

HOW SIGNIFICANT WERE DEDICATED SNIPERS?

Here on CWT there have been I don't know how many discussions about snipers. The Whitworth Rifle has been the object of much attention. There is one in the box complete with all its accoutrements, including dark green glasses, at the Civil War museum in Kennesaw GA. It is certainly a refined piece of workmanship. In the Army of Tennessee only the very best marksmen were entrusted with one of those precious beauties.

What made me ponder the question is a report by CPT William D. Humphries, Ordinance Officer, Army of Tennessee. In his accounting of the small arms ammunition issued between June 1, 1862 - March 30, 1865 there are some curiosities, 1,000 rifle & 1,680 musket flints accompanied by 86,600 .69 cal. British Smoothbore Balls & 953,000 .69 cal. smoothbore rnds are a testament to the antiques issued to state militias.

Given the ample discussion that the Whitworth Rifles generate, I was surprised to discover that only 400 rounds of the very specific hexagonal balls were issued by the Army of Tennessee. By way of comparison, on June 20, 1862 800 pikes were issued. On the far other end of the accuracy bell curve, 334,800 rounds of shotgun rnds were handed out. Even a rarity like the Dragoon Pistol was furnished with 52,000 rds.

The likelihood that one of the 3,642,140 rnds of .577 would hit a target is magnitudes more likely than the 400 total rnds that the Whitworth Rifles could have fired. There really isn't much there there.

Thanks to Charles Lemons who posted Humphries' report on the Western Theater in the Civil War forum on Nov 8th.

Does that mean lead balls were being run through the blockade rather than lead ingots? Wouldn't that have been more expensive or was it leftovers from ammo to repel boarders?

 

[Rhea Cole]

Does that mean lead balls were being run through the blockade rather than lead ingots? Wouldn't that have been more expensive or was it leftovers from ammo to repel boarders?

The Blockade Runner Modern Greece was run aground near Fort Fisher. Soon enough the wreck was sealed by a layer of sand & silt. In 70 feet of water near the beach, the Modern Greece was excavated in the 1970's.

Amongst the thousands of artifacts are Enfield .577 cal. bullets, 12 pound Whitworth bolts & case shot. The bullet mold is .577 Enfield.

There are a remarkable number of small lead pigs with maker marks.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Thought that's a big leap to make any claim that ties the significance of the field activities of the whitworth marksmen (so-called 'dedicated snipers') to the total number of accompanying specialized rounds issued by the AoT, as per the report of Capt. Humphries.

From information found in previous discussion threads, thought it's a safe bet to assert that there were at least 30 to 40 whitworth rifles in use by the AoT, certainly by the second half of '64. Further, the ammunition reports for the AoT for the consecutive weeks ending Jun. 19 and Jun. 25, '64, showed the total number of whitworth counted rounds on hand were 3,313 and 3,443 respectively. ( See 'OR': Vol. 38, Part 4, @ p. 782 & 791).

Thought it must also be borne in mind that there were probably very few imported (from Britain) solid swaged hexagonal whitworth bullets issued with this imported weapon that were ever actually received by Confederate field forces (hence, no spent hexagonal rounds have ever been found in the field, as far as I know). Instead, many compatible caliber soft lead cylindrical rounds were made in field/camp conditions, using the various solid base bullet molds that accompanied these weapons as accessories. Therefore, the vast bulk (likely in the thousands) of these molded cylindrical rounds would likely have escaped any formal hq ordnance count, like say that performed by Capt. Humphries.

Therefore, based on the above information, I doubt that the report by Capt. Humphries of 400 whitworth rounds issued over the entire course of the war by the AoT can be accurate, and thereby reflective of the significance (or lack of significance) of the actions of the whitworth riflemen. I too, am surprised by the report of Capt. Humphries finding only 400 rounds in the wartime period.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Famously, in Knoxville there is a house with a clear story where one of Longstreet's sharp shooters perched.

That was the Armstrong House, also known as 'Bleak House'.

Makes me wonder what the life expectancy of a sharp shooter was.

Believe that a large majority of the whitworth riflemen survived the war.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Excluding John Sedgwick and John Reynolds,

On the fatal shot that struck John Reynolds, believe it's been fairly well-established now that it was fired by an advancing or retreating infantryman in Archer's brigade located in or near the Herbst Woods.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Makes me wonder just how many generals were killed by snipers during the war.

I previously counted that four Union generals (Sedgwick, Stevenson, Lytle and Sanders) were likely killed by whitworth marksmen; with another two (Rice and Whipple) as possibilities.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

I believe it depends on your definition of significant.

Probably relatively insignificant when considering the numbers listed above.

Perhaps more significant when considering things like officers specifically targeted and eliminated, artillery crews specifically targeted and neutralized, and the psychological effect of sharpshooting on morale.

This has always been the case with sniping in any war. It accounts for few casualties in the grand scheme. But it's effect sometimes far outweighs casualty numbers.

400 rounds is really, really minimal.

 

[Rhea Cole]

400 rounds is really, really minimal.

It is a striking number. The circular cross section .45 cal. Bullets for the Wentworth had a proportionally deep dimple. I assume that was necessary because of the hexancgle bore. That would explain how quickly Whitworths fouled.

 

[Mississippian1861]

I saw that FB post and I have some questions because the numbers look way off in my eye. I've been looking at CS ordnance reports for more that 15 years. The original poster was asked to post images. The whitworth cartridge numbers are laughable. 425 Whitworth cartridges alone were issued with the two Whitworth rifles issued to Anderson's Brigade in June 1863, and another 100 went to the rifle issued to the 34th Mississippi in Walthall's Brigade at the same time.

 

[Sgt. Tyree]

Being sniped at was without a doubt frightening. What peeked my interest at first are the numerous instances of artillery batteries returning the favor. Famously, in Knoxville there is a house with a clear story where one of Longstreet's sharp shooters perched. The gunners at Fort Sanders silenced him with a glass showered direct hit. Makes me wonder what the life expectancy of a sharp shooter was.

When considering the significance of sharpshooters, the fact that an entire battery would be used to engage a single sharpshooter seems telling. Again, I believe there's more to significance than bottom line numbers.

And the sharpshooter/artillery engagements occurred both ways. I read one account of a Confederate light horse battery riding into action and being engaged by what they believed to be a single Union sharpshooter. They ended up with several casualties, including horses dead in the traces, and not a single gun ever got unlimbered and in action. One of the Confederate artillery crewmen said, "We went in a battery and came out a wreck."

EDIT: I got the above story wrong; it may have been more than one Union Sharpshooter. Below is the account:

At Malvern Hill, Va., on July 1, 1862—the final clash in the Seven Days Battles—their (Berdan Sharpshooters) pinpoint fire destroyed in only 10 minutes the 1st Richmond Howitzers of Colonel William Barksdale's Brigade. "We went in a battery and came out a wreck" a Confederate gunner later wrote. "We came out with one gun, ten men and two horses, and without firing a shot."

 

[CowCavalry]

I saw that FB post and I have some questions because the numbers look way off in my eye. I've been looking at CS ordnance reports for more that 15 years. The original poster was asked to post images. The whitworth cartridge numbers are laughable. 425 Whitworth cartridges alone were issued with the two Whitworth rifles issued to Anderson's Brigade in June 1863, and another 100 went to the rifle issued to the 34th Mississippi in Walthall's Brigade at the same time.

So this info came from a facebook posting?

 

[wausaubob]

Thought that's a big leap to make any claim that ties the significance of the field activities of the whitworth marksmen (so-called 'dedicated snipers') to the total number of accompanying specialized rounds issued by the AoT, as per the report of Capt. Humphries.

From information found in previous discussion threads, thought it's a safe bet to assert that there were at least 30 to 40 whitworth rifles in use by the AoT, certainly by the second half of '64. Further, the ammunition reports for the AoT for the consecutive weeks ending Jun. 19 and Jun. 25, '64, showed the total number of whitworth counted rounds on hand were 3,313 and 3,443 respectively. ( See 'OR': Vol. 38, Part 4, @ p. 782 & 791).

Thought it must also be borne in mind that there were probably very few imported (from Britain) solid swaged hexagonal whitworth bullets issued with this imported weapon that were ever actually received by Confederate field forces (hence, no spent hexagonal rounds have ever been found in the field, as far as I know). Instead, many compatible caliber soft lead cylindrical rounds were made in field/camp conditions, using the various solid base bullet molds that accompanied these weapons as accessories. Therefore, the vast bulk (likely in the thousands) of these molded cylindrical rounds would likely have escaped any formal hq ordnance count, like say that performed by Capt. Humphries.

Therefore, based on the above information, I doubt that the report by Capt. Humphries of 400 whitworth rounds issued over the entire course of the war by the AoT can be accurate, and thereby reflective of the significance (or lack of significance) of the actions of the whitworth riflemen. I too, am surprised by the report of Capt. Humphries finding only 400 rounds in the wartime period.

That was my initial guess. If a soldier had a sniper rifle, he likely also possessed a mold to make his own rounds.

 

[wausaubob]

Care must be deployed to distinguish between the Whitworth naval gun, the Whitworth hexagonal barreled artillery piece, and Whitworth sniper rifle. The naval gun I believe was superseded by the Armstrong gun. The artillery piece was a rarity, because of the specialized munition that was necessary. But I believe the technology to melt down cleansed minie balls and make Withworth sniper rounds with a mold was available. Didn't US troops prefer the Sharp's rifle and their own rifles that they had used in competition?

 

[Mint Julep]

Snipers and sharpshooters are not the same animal.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Snipers and sharpshooters are not the same animal.

Etymology of "Sniper."

Link:

Sniper - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

"concealed sharpshooter; one who shoots from a hidden place," 1824, agent noun from snipe… See origin and meaning of sniper.

www.etymonline.com

Etymology of " Sharpshooter."

Link:

Sharp-shooter - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

"one skilled in shooting with firearms," later especially the rifle, 1800; see sharp… See origin and meaning of sharp-shooter.

www.etymonline.com

In the popular vernacular of the mid 19th Century there was no significant difference.