Shoulder straps & Chevrons - Both??

[VAGirl]

In this CDV, the Infantry officer (per kepi insignia & tinting) is wearing both shoulder straps & Sergeant chevrons. They have not been added after the photograph was taken, although the image has been tinted.

He wears what I believe is supposed to be a crimson sash, although it now appears purplish. There is some of that same color on the outer arm above the cuff. His shoulder straps have been tinted sky blue with gold edging. It looks like there is an eagle mid-strap, which would make him a Colonel.

Photo taken in Philadelphia by Theo. Evers

BOTH Colonel shoulder straps AND Sergeant chevrons? What gives?

Thanks!

 

[BCS1973]

@VAGirl My vision isn't the greatest, but I'm having a hard time seeing the image.

 

[Sowbelly and Hardtack]

@VAGirl you failed to post the CDV.

 

[VAGirl]

@VAGirl you failed to post the CDV.

Groan...

 

[captaindrew]

Looks like the sergeant's chevrons were removed but still left their mark from fading. Maybe he had just been promoted and hadn't bought a new coat yet. Line officers sashes were a crimson/burgundy color, I think that's what whoever added color to the photo was shooting for. I don't see anything in the shoulder board other than a lack of color toward the back, I believe he's probably a just promoted 2nd Lieutenant.

 

[stu613]

Or maybe he was a Sergeant Major!

 

[Salterr]

He's most likely a newly appointed 2nd lieutenant. The boards are blank and he has a single row of buttons. His buckle is also still an enlisted buckle with applied wreath. I can't make out the material of the sash though. Silk for officers, worsted wool for NCO's. At first glance it looks to have knots for the NCO sash but I can't tell over the coloring. As for the sergeant chevrons the fading is reversed the material under the chevron would be darker than the coat if the coat was exposed to elements and sunlight, the material under the chevron would not be exposed.

 

[VAGirl]

Makes sense. Thanks! Not sure what to think about the chevron area being too light, but other than that, I think you've solved it. I missed the button arrangement.

Would someone please post for me an "enlisted buckle with applied wreath" & an "officer's buckle" so that I can see the difference?

Thanks!

 

[Salterr]

Makes sense. Thanks! Not sure what to think about the chevron area being too light, but other than that, I think you've solved it. I missed the button arrangement.

Would someone please post for me an "enlisted buckle with applied wreath" & an "officer's buckle" so that I can see the difference?

Thanks!

There are many variations in the eagle design but 3 main styles of wreath. 3 piece are early and pre war. 1 piece show up prominently mid and late war. The silver wreath is soldered into place. The last photo the wreath is already cast into the buckle and is an officers. The tongue on the back changes sizes too. They got wider as the war progressed and got even bigger after the war nearly reaching the edges of the buckle.

 

[7thWisconsin]

Just to deepen the mystery: that´s not an enlisted frock coat. The enlisted coat has piping around the collar and cuffs. The junior officer frock doesn´t. That´s a junior officer frock that someone wore whilst in the ranks, maybe the subject... maybe he picked it up second hand cheap.

 

[Sowbelly and Hardtack]

I think we are missing something important. @VAGirl it would be most helpful if when posting photos that you provide any and all information when possible. In this case where did you come across this CDV? Is there a photographer's imprint on the backside? If so do you have a photo of it? Do you know if this soldier is identified?

I've either seen this photo before or one very much like it.

 

[Old Soldier]

Salterr is right. The chevrons would not have been worn on this coat, and even if they did , fading would produce a DARK outline, not the individual stripes. The photographers of the day loved to add extras to the print was this a photo of the SERGEANT which was updated when he got promoted. The shoulder straps are the most altered part of the photo, were they added afterwards? or was it vice versa?

It does look like an officer's coat, the nearest arm appears to have three buttons on it, but the others cannot be seen and the cuff has no piping visible. After more playing about, it looks like an officer's sash with the 'coned' top.

 

[7thWisconsin]

The cuffs are straight, too, as they should be on an officer frock. The cuff on an enlisted frock is curved upward toward the elbow.

 

[VAGirl]

I think we are missing something important. @VAGirl it would be most helpful if when posting photos that you provide any and all information when possible. In this case where did you come across this CDV? Is there a photographer's imprint on the backside? If so do you have a photo of it? Do you know if this soldier is identified?

I've either seen this photo before or one very much like it.

Most of my CDVs have been purchased from eBay - most of them more than 10 years ago. Unfortunately, I gave you everything I had about it, except for the photographer's studio address, which was No. 606 Arch Street, Philadelphia. Here's a photo of the back of the CDV & a close-up of the photographer's imprint. I do not have an ID for the soldier. You guys know everything I do - and more!

 

[Package4]

Groan... View attachment 484653View attachment 484654View attachment 484655

I believe this to be an early war militia coat, if you look at the contrast to the kepi and pants it appears to be gray. The high collar would also indicate pre to very early war. His age is such that he would be promoted fairly soon after war breaks out, if he were a sergeant. Just an opinion.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I believe this to be an early war militia coat, if you look at the contrast to the kepi and pants it appears to be gray. The high collar would also indicate pre to very early war. His age is such that he would be promoted fairly soon after war breaks out, if he were a sergeant. Just an opinion.

I keep thinking about this - I don´t think the collar is any higher than other coats I´ve seen. But you are right that his coat is not the same shade as his trousers, which look much more like what Union blue looks like in a b/w photo. But I don´t think it´s grey. What about light blue -a Veteran Reserve Corp coat? VRC officers wore a light blue coat, but with a standard blue cap.

 

[TLHS]

Looks like the sergeant's chevrons were removed but still left their mark from fading. Maybe he had just been promoted and hadn't bought a new coat yet. Line officers sashes were a crimson/burgundy color, I think that's what whoever added color to the photo was shooting for. I don't see anything in the shoulder board other than a lack of color toward the back, I believe he's probably a just promoted 2nd Lieutenant.

I agree with your observation about the quick promotion to Lieutenant. Notice the staff buttons, officer's 1850 regulation foot officer's sword with proper belt. Nice period image.

 

[Old Soldier]

I think we are agreed that this is an officer, dressed as an officer, but where did the stripes come from?

 

[Package4]

I keep thinking about this - I don´t think the collar is any higher than other coats I´ve seen. But you are right that his coat is not the same shade as his trousers, which look much more like what Union blue looks like in a b/w photo. But I don´t think it´s grey. What about light blue -a Veteran Reserve Corp coat? VRC officers wore a light blue coat, but with a standard blue cap.

Yes looking at this again the collar is not as high as I originally thought, but still higher than what would be comfortable for a field coat. I do not think that VRC officers wore a different colored frock than standard, but I may be wrong. I do not think this coat to be dark blue and if not gray...........

I did find a photo of a VRC officer in a non standard coat, but the collar and cuffs are deep blue and the trousers are light:

 

[7thWisconsin]

Yes looking at this again the collar is not as high as I originally thought, but still higher than what would be comfortable for a field coat. I do not think that VRC officers wore a different colored frock than standard, but I may be wrong. I do not think this coat to be dark blue and if not gray...........

I did find a photo of a VRC officer in a non standard coat, but the collar and cuffs are deep blue and the trousers are light:

View attachment 486030

Regulations initially required the light blue frock for officers, then were later changed back to the standard frock as the light blue was unpopular. I can understand that given that every other junior officer in the army was wearing a dark colored coat except for the VRC.