Shiloh NMP visit

[rebracer]

Shiloh is a beautiful place and the fact that it is secluded from development adds to the experience. You can truly get in so many areas of this battlefield with no sights and sounds of the modern world. Wonderful experience.

 

[AA484]

Government wisdom at work

This is a bad thing? As far as I'm concerned, the closer it looks to 1862, the better.

 

[16thAL]

This is a bad thing? As far as I'm concerned, the closer it looks to 1862, the better.

That's why we upset . They removed the sunken road that the wagons of 1862 would have sunk down . That is all we want is for it to look like the farming community it was in 1862 .

 

[AA484]

That's why we upset . They removed the sunken road that the wagons of 1862 would have sunk down . That is all we want is for it to look like the farming community it was in 1862 .

But if it was never sunken to begin with, why the worry?

 

[16thAL]

But if it was never sunken to begin with, why the worry?

That's the point . It was !!! The park service decided to fill it in over a hundred years after wagons stopped rolling on it .

 

[UCVRelics]

But if it was never sunken to begin with, why the worry?

It was indeed a VERY sunken road as when I my Grandfather took my brother and I there in 1969 it was at least 3 feet deep in places and I found my first CW bullet washed out of the side of it.

 

[AA484]

That just means it became sunken at some point between the end of the war and when they regraded it. There is convincing evidence that it was not sunken at the time of the battle. Correcting it to its wartime appearance gives us a better understanding of the conditions that the soldiers who fought there faced. This isn't government-spending for the sake of government spending.

 

[16thAL]

That just means it became sunken at some point between the end of the war and when they regraded it. There is convincing evidence that it was not sunken at the time of the battle. Correcting it to its wartime appearance gives us a better understanding of the conditions that the soldiers who fought there faced. This isn't government-spending for the sake of government spending.

Yeah . Wagons on a port road in a community don't sink a road at all . First hand accounts from lifelong residents and ancestors means nothing . Of course the government knows better than the residents .

 

[UCVRelics]

That just means it became sunken at some point between the end of the war and when they regraded it. There is convincing evidence that it was not sunken at the time of the battle. Correcting it to its wartime appearance gives us a better understanding of the conditions that the soldiers who fought there faced. This isn't government-spending for the sake of government spending.

Soldier references after the battle talk about using the "Sunken Road" for cover.

 

[AA484]

Soldier references after the battle talk about using the "Sunken Road" for cover.

That would appear to be at odds with this article, which was adapted from a chapter in Tim Smith's (who perhaps knows more about the battlefield and the battle itself than any other living person) book The Untold Story of Shiloh: The Battle and the Battlefield: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/battle-shiloh-shattering-myths

The road was not a major avenue of travel.

Post-battle photos of the road show a mere path, not a sunken trace.

Not one single report in the Official Records mentions the road as being sunken. Likewise, no soldiers' letters or diaries exist that refer to it as sunken

Although the Hornet's Nest was a wartime term, the expression Sunken Road did not appear until the 1881 publication of Manning Force's From Fort Henry to Corinth. Thereafter, veterans began to embellish the story.

At the same time, the proliferation of veterans memoirs in the 1890s and early 1900s keyed on the growing popularity of this location, which grew deeper with each passing volume, ultimately reaching a depth of several feet.

Over the years, a variety of myths and legends about the battle have crept into American culture, and today are viewed by many as the truth.

I don't understand why you think that they would fill in the road just for the sake of filling it in, i.e. "government bad."

 

[UCVRelics]

That would appear to be at odds with this article, which was adapted from a chapter in Tim Smith's (who perhaps knows more about the battlefield and the battle itself than any other living person) book The Untold Story of Shiloh: The Battle and the Battlefield: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/battle-shiloh-shattering-myths






I don't understand why you think that they would fill in the road just for the sake of filling it in, i.e. "government bad."

I have to respectfully disagree. Plus Tim Smith can't hold a candle to Mr. DeBerry. Have you ever been there?

 

[AA484]

Here is one photo from the NPS site

I have to respectfully disagree. Plus Tim Smith can't hold a candle to Mr. DeBerry. Have you ever been there?

Multiple times. What evidence does DeBerry have that refutes Smith's (and others) conclusions?

 

[16thAL]

That would appear to be at odds with this article, which was adapted from a chapter in Tim Smith's (who perhaps knows more about the battlefield and the battle itself than any other living person) book The Untold Story of Shiloh: The Battle and the Battlefield: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/battle-shiloh-shattering-myths







I don't understand why you think that they would fill in the road just for the sake of filling it in, i.e. "government bad."

Sir I am currently standing on the ground Shiloh was fought over and am only 20 minutes away from said road . I would gladly meet you there to show you and introduce you to the man whose roots are so deep there he was born on that park .

 

[UCVRelics]

Here is one photo from the NPS site

Multiple times. What evidence does DeBerry have that refutes Smith's (and others) conclusions?

Tell you what I will do. I will prove it was used my soldiers for cover with first hand accounts and you prove it wasn't by first hand accounts and not just with a google search as TS is not an authority on the matter, just someone selling books.

 

[AA484]

Sir I am currently standing on the ground Shiloh was fought over and am only 20 minutes away from said road . I would gladly meet you there to show you and introduce you to the man whose roots are so deep there he was born on that park .

But what evidence does he have that the road was sunken at the time of the battle? Does him being born there making him any more qualified to make an assessment of the evidence than those who haven't? I have no doubt he is highly familiar with the battlefield and the troop movements, but legends have a way of taking on a life of their own, where even knowledgeable people can be misled by stories and the passage of time. It's like the game of "telephone" you played as a kid. Whisper something in your neighbors ear and 10 or 12 people later it comes out with "purple monkey dishwasher" added.

 

[AA484]

The burden of proof is on you to prove that the road was indeed sunken. It's similar to asking me to prove that Bigfoot doesn't exist by using sources.

And it isn't like I Googled some hack and reproduced it here. Whether you want to believe Tim is none of my concern, but he is a respected author for a reason.

I'm not sure there is another section of American history where people are so averse to new discoveries or knowledge than the Civil War. "Well, it's been passed down for 150 years, it must be true!"

 

[16thAL]

But what evidence does he have that the road was sunken at the time of the battle? Does him being born there making him any more qualified to make an assessment of the evidence than those who haven't? I have no doubt he is highly familiar with the battlefield and the troop movements, but legends have a way of taking on a life of their own, where even knowledgeable people can be misled by stories and the passage of time. It's like the game of "telephone" you played as a kid. Whisper something in your neighbors ear and 10 or 12 people later it comes out with "purple monkey dishwasher" added.

I have personally read some of the same reports as @ucvrelics that describes a road beat down by wagon traffic from the port . And yes Mr. Larry bring of the families that settled that community and a nationally recognized historian because of his passion for the knowledge of what happened there . And yes I am proud to be able to study under him in his twilight years because he is such a wealth of facts . His entire life has been devoted to preserving that hallowed ground .

 

[16thAL]

The burden of proof is on you to prove that the road was indeed sunken. It's similar to asking me to prove that Bigfoot doesn't exist by using sources.

And it isn't like I Googled some hack and reproduced it here. Whether you want to believe Tim is none of my concern, but he is a respected author for a reason.

I'm not sure there is another section of American history where people are so averse to new discoveries or knowledge than the Civil War. "Well, it's been passed down for 150 years, it must be true!"

There are some things that get passed down . That is true . But when you have resources such as Aunt Sara Bells family bible . (Yes the original ) to get notes out of it brings a lot more providence. And yes sir I have personally gone through it myself .

 

[UCVRelics]

The burden of proof is on you to prove that the road was indeed sunken.

Not really as its called THE SUNKEN ROAD for a reason. I sent you a challenge on this but I guess you are just going to go with some modern day author. So are you going to prove its wasn't used for cover by soldier and I prove it was??????

 

[AA484]

Not really as its called THE SUNKEN ROAD for a reason. I sent you a challenge on this but I guess you are just going to go with some modern day author. So are you going to prove its wasn't used for cover by soldier and I prove it was??????

It being called the "sunken" road today has already been explained.

I still don't get what you're asking. I went for a walk on a road today. When I got home, did I make specific note to my wife on whether the path was sunken or not? Now, if all paths are sunken, then it would merit being called out by being an exception to the norm.

I just don't understand why the two of you are so upset about this. Does it really change much about the fighting? Maybe it makes the Union defense less impressive? Or (perhaps more important to the two of you) make the Confederate capture of the position less impressive? I don't know.

I also don't have the gumption to accept internet forum challenges from who I can only imagine is a grown man.

Anyway, have a nice evening, gents.