Forrest Shelby Vs. Forrest

[bama46]

The thing that impresses me is his ability to bluff the other side (frequently) into surrendering, even though he was totally outnumbered and outgunned. I wouldn't have wanted to get in a poker game with him.

Me neither!

today's phrase would be "fakin you out of your jock!"

 

[larry_cockerham]

Larry,
I thought Forrest had NO peers

Ed

I think he had a couple, but we don't talk about them much. (yankees) In one respect you are quite right, Forrest had his own set of tasks, terrain to deal with, and opportunities for individuality (superior) that the others weren't afforded. The yankees were a bit more constrained with silly rules and a supervisor giving them orders.

 

[Nathanb1]

Apparently in some ways he had smarter commanders in most cases (qualified statement) -- the times he lost were times he followed their orders over this own better judgement, just like those poor old yankees had to do.

I admire his organizational ability as well as his leadership and daring. Capturing gunboats is just one of the things that impresses me. Not sure how you manage that (even though I've read the accounts) with cavalry.

Finally, his "no quit" attitude--even though he got orders he didn't like, he carried them out as best he could. He literally wore himself out and lost his family...he gave everything he had to the war. His bravery can't be questioned. (Yankee-horse ratio, for one)

To the bad, he was a man of his time, deeply ingrained in the notion that black people were meant to be slaves. We need to get over the politically correct current view and look at these folks in the context of their times. Was what he did bad? Yep. Was he any different than millions more who took Native American land and either continued a policy of extermination or sent them off to live on poverty-stricken reservations? (Custer, Howard, Miles, Terry,Sherman, MacKenzie, Grierson, etc.) He provided for his family (very well), treated women well, and as Ole mentioned, was sort of a butt--like Patton and a few more I can mention.

Of the generals I read about, he's the one who scares me. But no different than a bunch of other "frontier" types.

 

[larry_cockerham]

To the bad, he was a man of his time, deeply ingrained in the notion that black people were meant to be slaves. We need to get over the politically correct current view and look at these folks in the context of their times. Was what he did bad? Yep. Was he any different than millions more who took Native American land and either continued a policy of extermination or sent them off to live on poverty-stricken reservations? (Custer, Howard, Miles, Terry,Sherman, MacKenzie, Grierson, etc.) He provided for his family (very well), treated women well, and as Ole mentioned, was sort of a butt--like Patton and a few more I can mention.

There's a slight flaw in you conclusions here in my opinion. I studied this man long enough that I have some opinions, right or wrong. I really don't think that he believed that black people were meant to be slaves. The few records of quotes such as his poll bearer's speech and his offer to free his teamsters as well as his 'instructions' to his soldiers at the close of the war really don't bear this notion out. He was a businessman. He didn't create slavery and was too poor to become involved in the enterprise until he was well into adulthood and acquired his plantations along the Mississippi and eventually needed the labor. His slave shop was created to acquire that labor rather than creating the business enterprise that was common well before he entered the activity. He was merely a salesman, a dealer in merchandise which he bought and sold at a profit. There's a subtle difference in the reality of the situation than what you infer in your post. His noted acts of kindness and the reviews of the folks who were there bear me out, I believe. All in all he was a kind man, until the yankees changed his attitude. Having someone trying to kill you will do that to a man.

 

[Nathanb1]

I think you missed my point...he was involved in something now characterized as bad. In the South, he filled a vital role in the economy. I suspect if he'd grown up in Maine, he'd now be known as the Wizard of the Saddle from the Union. He'd have fought just as fiercely and worn his mind and body out just as much.

Why is he my favorite general? (Hint, boys and girls...it's the bonus question on my Civil War test) For all those reasons listed. Your assessment of his personality is exactly like mine and why I let the kids hear all the bad stuff and then Shelby Foote and I convince them there's a very, very good side. His speech you noted is one of the things that convinced me -- in addition to many other things. Just the way he met his wife and took care of his family are enough for me. Nobody needs to convince me of the innate wonderfulness of Nathan B. Forrest. He was a real man, and he admitted his errors and asked for forgiveness for any wrongs he'd done. How many people publicly do that? Everybody makes his own way in life, and he did just that. His words at the end of the war say it all. No one has ever been all good or all bad--just shades. (Well, one person)

 

[larry_cockerham]

I think you missed my point...he was involved in something now characterized as bad. In the South, he filled a vital role in the economy. I suspect if he'd grown up in Maine, he'd now be known as the Wizard of the Saddle from the Union. He'd have fought just as fiercely and worn his mind and body out just as much.

Why is he my favorite general? (Hint, boys and girls...it's the bonus question on my Civil War test) For all those reasons listed. Your assessment of his personality is exactly like mine and why I let the kids hear all the bad stuff and then Shelby Foote and I convince them there's a very, very good side. His speech you noted is one of the things that convinced me -- in addition to many other things. Just the way he met his wife and took care of his family are enough for me. Nobody needs to convince me of the innate wonderfulness of Nathan B. Forrest. He was a real man, and he admitted his errors and asked for forgiveness for any wrongs he'd done. How many people publicly do that? Everybody makes his own way in life, and he did just that. His words at the end of the war say it all. No one has ever been all good or all bad--just shades. (Well, one person)

Would that there were thousands of teachers like you spread across our great land. What we'd do with the turkeys being replaced is the problem. No, I didn't miss your point and heartily agree with it. You won't find a place in all the mess I've placed on this forum where I stated slavery was a good thing and a few places where I freely admitted that N.B. Forrest was no saint. The TN Division of the SCV owns and is in the long process of "restoring" the residence of William Forrest in Marshall County, TN where the future lt. general spent at least four years of his childhood 1830-34. You'll perhaps be proud to know that I've recently learned that Nathan stayed behind part of a year to finish some schooling while his folks moved on to Salem, Mississippi to what is now Benton County. I have several photos of the residence and barn in Marshall County which I would be happy to share should you ever be able to use them. The house is about 75 percent complete (still working on the interior) and the barn where William Forrest likely operated his blacksmith service is about 90 percent. The grounds are also in far better condition that when this property was acquired from the state about 15 years ago. Eventually this residence will house a museum and the two story part of the structure will be leased for weddings, meeting, etc. Just something to do to occupy our time and preserve the knowledge of a large family who contributed heavily to an event far beyond their control. There's about 57 acres in this current property which was once owned by the general's grandfather. That was perhaps 150 acres, much of which now has relatively new houses on it. All this is about 2 miles from the sleepy town of Chapel Hill. Address for Google or other map view purposes is 4435Pyles Road, Chapel Hill, TN. There's about a half-mile driveway back to the house and barn.

 

[Nathanb1]

I've seen your posts on that before. Bless you. The NBF pilgrimage is also on my bucket list. I suffer from having had some of those teachers you reference -- My way or the highway. My classmates still remember the "war" with our junior English teacher and myself over the John Lennon "Jesus" comment. Being young and stupid, thought I could convince the woman to read the article in context. Luckily for me, her little "favorite" agreed with me, so I wasn't kicked into detention!

 

[Nathanb1]

. The TN Division of the SCV owns and is in the long process of "restoring" the residence of William Forrest in Marshall County, TN where the future lt. general spent at least four years of his childhood 1830-34. You'll perhaps be proud to know that I've recently learned that Nathan stayed behind part of a year to finish some schooling while his folks moved on to Salem, Mississippi to what is now Benton County. I have several photos of the residence and barn in Marshall County which I would be happy to share should you ever be able to use them. The house is about 75 percent complete (still working on the interior) and the barn where William Forrest likely operated his blacksmith service is about 90 percent. The grounds are also in far better condition that when this property was acquired from the state about 15 years ago. Eventually this residence will house a museum and the two story part of the structure will be leased for weddings, meeting, etc. Just something to do to occupy our time and preserve the knowledge of a large family who contributed heavily to an event far beyond their control. There's about 57 acres in this current property which was once owned by the general's grandfather. That was perhaps 150 acres, much of which now has relatively new houses on it. All this is about 2 miles from the sleepy town of Chapel Hill. Address for Google or other map view purposes is 4435Pyles Road, Chapel Hill, TN. There's about a half-mile driveway back to the house and barn.

Just looked at the 2009 fundraiser photos. I loved the recycling bin! My granny would have gone around pickin up cans and putting them in. The General would be proud.

 

[Borderruffian]

There are things I don't do.

1. Put a rattler in milk bucket and tease him.

2. Question my wife on interior decorating plans or schemes.

3. Get into a debate with Larry Cockerham on NBF ot the AOT.

I'd lose in all three situations.......just sayin.

 

[ole]

That's about the size of it.

4. Never, ever answer the question, "Does this dress make me look fat?"

Ole

 

[Nathanb1]

That's about the size of it.

4. Never, ever answer the question, "Does this dress make me look fat?"

Ole

If this thread isn't proof of why I still rank Larry, Ole, Shane, Borderruffian, Ed, and TerryB among my all-time favorite posters---well, you can't read and need to return to first grade.

THIS is my all-time favorite thread on Forrest, even if I did gush a bit. Just the "Full Contact Lawn Darts" made it an epic win. (At least it's my favorite till I move the next thread...many thanks to 7th Mississippi Infantry for finding and alerting me to this!)