Forrest Shelby Vs. Forrest

[M E Wolf]

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME 7 [S# 7]
DECEMBER 28, 1861.--Action at Sacramento, Ky.
No. 2. -- Report of Brig. Gen. Charles Clark, C. S. Army.
HEADQUARTERS HOPKINSVILLE, KY.,
January 8, 1862.
LIEUTENANT: I have the honor to transmit herewith, for the information of the major-general, the official report of Col. N. B. Forrest of his brilliant and dashing affair at Sacramento on the 28th ultimo:
The report of Colonel Forrest is a modest recital of one of the most brilliant and successful cavalry engagements which the present war has witnessed, and gives a favorable omen of what that arm of our service will do in future on a more extended scale.
The loss of the enemy, it will be seen, is estimated by Colonel Forrest at 65 killed and 35 wounded and prisoners, and from private and unofficial sources I learn that the number is not overestimated.
Our own loss was but 2 killed, but in the death of Capt. C. E. Meriwether, who fell while gallantly leading his command into action, the country and the service have sustained a loss which I most deeply deplore. A brave and chivalrous gentleman, I esteemed him as one of the very best officers of his rank in the service. Colonel Forrest pays what I doubt not is a wellmented tribute to the gallantry and good conduct of his officers and men generally and specially. For the skill, courage, and energy displayed by Colonel Forrest he is entitled to the highest praise, and I take great pleasure in calling the attention of the general commanding and of the Government to his services. I am assured by officers and men that throughout the entire engagement he was conspicuous for the most daring courage; always in advance of his command. He was at one time engaged in a hand-to-hand conflict with 4 of the enemy, 3 of whom he killed, dismounting and making a prisoner of the fourth.
The other field officers, Lieutenant-Colonel Starnes and Major Kelly, by their coolness, courage, and promptitude, contributed largely to the success of the day.
I have the honor to be, lieutenant, respectfully, &c.,
CHARLES CLARK, Brigadier-General, Commanding.
Lieut. D. G. WHITE,
Acting Assistant Adjutant-General, Bowling Green, Ky.
----------------------
Colonel N. B. Forrest then was tied up with the investigation into the fall of Fort Donelson, in Tennessee; where General A. S. Johnson was killed and Generals Pillow,Buckner and Floyd were under the rath of the CSA's Secretary of War; in addition to working in the field.

M. E. Wolf

 

[Scribe]

My conclusion is Custer is the best calvary man! My vote after reading about Forrest in various sources and a book on Jo Shelby. Shelby is 1 Forrest ranks 2. I believe all the members must accept this as the truth and thats all, I have to say.

Good Day!

Shelby's reputation is based largely on his skill in covering retreats... a skill he had ample opportunity to practice serving as he did under Marmaduke, Hindman, Holmes, and Price.

 

[M E Wolf]

Name SHELBY, Joseph Orville "Jo"
Born December 12 1830, Lexington KY
Died February 13 1897, Adrian MO
Pre-War Profession Rope manufacturer, planter, Missouri-Kansas conflict.
War Service 1861 Capt. of cavalry, Wilson's Creek, June 1862 Col., commanded a cavalry brigade, Prairie Grove, Helena (w), raided in Missouri 1863, December 1863 Brig. Gen., commanded a division in Price's Missouri raid, fled to Mexico to offer services to Maximilian.
Post War Career Returned to US after the downfall of Maximilian, farmer, US marshal.
Notes
--------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME 3 [S# 3]
JULY 5, 1861.--Engagement near Carthage, Mo.,
embracing actions at Dry Fork Creek and Brier Fork.
No. 3. -- Report of Brig. Gen. James S. Rains, Missouri State Guard (Confederate).(*)
HDQRS. SECOND DIVISION MISSOURI STATE GUARD,
July 20, 1861.
SIR: I have the honor to report to you the action of my division in the several engagements of the 5th instant.
[excerpt]
The cavalry brought on the field Consisted of Companies A and B and part-of H of the Third Cavalry, 115 men, commanded by Colonel Peyton, to whom was attached the companies of Captains Stone and Owens. The First Battalion of the Independent Cavalry. 250 men commanded by Colonel McCown; Lieutenant-Colonel Boughan's battalion of the Fourth Cavalry, 200 men, and Capt. Joseph O. Shelby's company of Rangers, 43 men, making a total of 1,812 men. The remaining portion Of my command, being unarmed, was used to present the appearance of a reserve corps and baggage guard. My division took up the line of march as ordered, and most of them without having prepared any breakfast.
]]]]]About 7 a.m., having marched some 5 miles, our scouts reported the enemy in force 3 miles in advance. I immediately went forward with some of my staff to reconnoiter their movements and examine the ground. -Perceiving that they were descending a slope towards a creek skirted on both sides with timber, I sent orders to Captain Shelby, who was in the advance, to halt and detain the whole command out of view, hoping that the enemy would cross the creek, when I could oblige them to take position in the bottom, while I drew up my force on the height commanding it. My expectations were realized, and after the enemy had crossed the creek I ordered Captain Shelby forward to check their advance. I
hen directed Colonel Weightman to deploy the brigade in order of battle on the ridge of prairie overlooking the enemy. This order was executed with celerity and precision, he placing Colonel Graves on the right, the artillery in the center, and Colonel Peyton to take position on the right of the First Brigade, and extend over their line as far as practicable towards the timber, the other division taking position on the left of my command. The ground upon which our army was drawn up was a high ridge of prairie, gently sloping southward, with undulations to a creek about one mile and a quarter distant. In front of our right was a large field of corn extending to the timber on the creek. The enemy, under command of Colonel Sigel, apparently about 2,000 strong, with seven pieces of artillery, took up their position on the north side of the creek, about three-quarters of a mile from the timber, and threw a few spherical-case shot at Captain Shelby's company, which was ordered back to the main line. This movement, conducted in the face of both armies, was executed with a precision worthy of the parade ground.
[excerpt]
To the officers and men of my command I return my thanks for their, gallant bearing and their dauntless zeal for the cause so dear to us all. The great object of our march is about complete, and, though commenced under difficulties that discourage many, yet, with a column of veteran troops threatening our rear and powerful force of the enemy in front, we can congratulate Ourselves on a victory which is but the prestige of our ultimate success.
To Colonels McMertre [McMurtry?] and Woodard, Assistant Quartermaster Barkery, and others of my staff, I am indebted for their aid in conveying orders, and to my aide-de-camp, Lieutenant-Colonel Maclean, for his assistance in the disposition of the forces and arrangement of the line of
battle.
The report of Colonel Weightman and other officers, along with the list of killed and Wounded, is hereby attached and made a part of this report.(*)
I am, sir, with much consideration, your obedient servant,
JAMES S. RAINS,
Brig. Gen., Comdg. Second Division Missouri State Guard.
Brig. Gen. W. HOUGH,
Adjutant-General Missouri State Guard.
-------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME 8 [S# 8]
MARCH 6-8, 1862.--Battle of Pea Ridge, or Elkhorn Tavern, Ark.
No. 54. -- Report of Brig. Gen. James S. Rains, commanding Eighth Division, Missouri State Guard.
HDQRS. EIGHTH DIVISION, MISSOURI STATE GUARD,
March 20, 1862.
SIR: In reporting the action of the Eighth Division in the recent engagement at Elkhorn I need not refer to the details of the march from Cove Creek or while in pursuit of the enemy, save to thank you for placing it in front of the other divisions at Fayetteville and retaining it there until we met and engaged the enemy on the morning of the 7th instant.
]]]]]To the officers and men of my command I must add my thanks to the praise they are entitled to from their country. The cool bravery of Colonel Erwin, Lieutenant-Colonels Bowman, Pearcy, and Stemmons, who had command of the infantry, will ever be gratefully remembered by me.
]]]]]Captain Shelby acted with his well-drilled company during the day with Colonel Gates, on the extreme left, where he was much exposed and did efficient service. In the evening his men were dismounted and served under Lieutenant-Colonel Bowman in the gallant charge across the field. Colonel Bledsoe and Lieutenant Higgins managed the battery with their
usual skill and daring.
[excerpt]
On the march since the engagement the exposure was so great that I have to mourn the loss of some of our bravest and best men. Lieutenant-Colonel Bowman, of the Sixth Infantry, and Captain [Jesse] Darrow, of the Thirteenth Cavalry, with 6 of the rank and file, who all behaved so gallantly on the field, have fallen from fatigue and exhaustion. Such losses are not easily repaired. I am pleased to be able to state that Captain Powers' wound is not considered mortal.
JAMES S. RAINS,
Brig. Gen, Comdg. Eighth Div., Missouri State Guard.
Captain BRAND,
Assistant Adjutant-General, Missouri State Guard.
--------------
Confederate Military History, Vol. 9
BIOGRAPHICAL
Brigadier-General Joseph O. Shelby was born at Lexington, Ky., in 1831, of a family prominent in the early history of Kentucky and Tennessee, and with a military record extending back to King's Mountain. His education was received in the schools of his native State. At the age of 19 he removed to Lafayette county, Mo., where by industry and thrift he became the owner of a rope factory, and a planter. He was rapidly accumulating a fortune when he was led to take an active part in the Kansas border troubles, siding with the Southern party. When the civil war commenced he left everything to organize a company of cavalry which marched at once to Independence, Mo. With them he fought at Booneville and captured the steamer Sunshine. Soon after this he joined General Price's army in the western part of the State. From this time forward General Shelby was actively engaged in every campaign of the war, west of the Mississippi. He was one of the most daring of all the leaders in that part of the general field of conflict and was ever ready for the most hazardous enterprise. He commanded his company dismounted in he defense of Corinth, and in June, 1862, was commissioned colonel with instructions to find his regiment in Missouri. Going with his company to Devall's Bluff he soon led the advance in a raid into Missouri and recruited his regiment in Lafayette county. In January, 1863, he was commanding a brigade including his own and three other Missouri regiments, and on the 13th of the following December he received the commission of brigadier-general. At the battle of Pea Ridge he especially distinguished himself, as also at Newtonia, Cane Hill and Prairie Grove. He commanded a division in the Cape Girardeau expedition, and in the attack on Helena was severely wounded. He was especially famous as raider, some of the most important expeditions being intrusted to him by General Price. On September 16, 1864, General Magruder, commanding the district of Arkansas, issued a congratulatory order in which he said: "The major-general commanding this district announces with pride to the troops one of the most gallant exploits and successful expeditions of the war: the capture of five forts by the heroic Shelby and his brave officers and men in the face of superior numbers and the destruction of a large portion of the railroad between Little Rock and Devall's Bluff." He then gives Shelby's report in full. We quote a part of it: "The immediate and tangible fruits of my expedition are 577 prisoners including one field officer and eleven line officers; over 250 Federals killed and wounded, ten miles of railroad track completely destroyed * * * 3,000 bales of hay consumed by fire; hay machines chopped to pieces; five forts razed to the ground; 500 stand of small arms distributed to my unarmed men; many fine horses captured; twelve barrels of salt brought off and given to a command suffering for it, besides supplying needy soldiers with blankets, shoes, boots, hats and clothing. * * * My details were tearing up the track while the enemy's bullets fired at the covering regiments were throwing splinters from the ties in their faces." All this was accomplished in the proximity of a much larger Federal force, which did not attack him, because Shelby's skillful movements had caused them to greatly exaggerate his strength. This was but one of his many daring and successful affairs with the enemy in the campaigns in Arkansas and Missouri. General Shelby's generous disposition, careful regard for his followers, and dauntless courage, made him the idol of his men. When the surrender had been made and the army disbanded, Shelby gathered about him 600 men, for the most part Missourians ready to follow him anywhere, whom he led to Mexico to take part in the war between the imperialists under Maximilian and the republicans under Juarez. He had expected to aid Maximilian, but the emperor's propositions did not please him and hence he changed his military scheme into a colonization enterprise. Among those in the colony with him were Gen. Sterling Price, General McCausland of Virginia and General Lyon of Kentucky. In 1867 General Shelby returned to the United States and to his farm in Missouri. He was to the last thoroughly Southern in sentiment, and remained in retirement most of the time after the war. In 1893 he was appointed by President Cleveland marshal for the western district of Missouri, an office he held until his death. During the great railroad strike of that year he performed his duties with the same fearlessness that he had shown during his military career. General Shelby in private life commanded the love and esteem of his neighbors. His presence at the annual Confederate reunions always aroused the greatest enthusiasm of the old veterans, and none will be more sadly missed at these yearly gatherings than Joseph O. Shelby, the gallant western military leader. His death occurred at his country home near Adrian, Mo., February 13, 1897.

===================================
continued

 

[M E Wolf]

Confederate Military History, Vol. 1
Officers Of Civil And Military Organizations.
Lieutenant-General Nathan Bedford Forrest in 1865, private of Cavalry in 1861. As Senator Daniel has said, "what genius was in that wonderful man! He felt the field as Blind Tom touches the keys of the piano. 'War means killing,' he said, ' and the way to kill is to get there first with the most men.' He was not taught at West Point, but he gave lessons to West Point." His career was quite as brilliant and devoted in its allegiance to duty in peace as it was in the conflict of arms. His father's family had moved from Virginia, before the Revolution, to North Carolina, where every member able to bear arms at that time fought in the cause of independence. His parents moved thence to Bedford county, Tennessee, where he was born July 13, 1821. In 1834 he moved with his father to Marshall county, Mississippi, where the latter soon died, leaving young Forrest to support the widow and family with no resources other than a small hill farm. He undertook this work with such devotion and energy, that while neglecting his own education he provided liberally for that of his brothers and sisters, and going into business at Memphis became able to purchase a large plantation, and at the outbreak of the war was one of the wealthiest planters in Tennessee. Soon after entering the Confederate service June 14, 1861, as a private in White's mounted rifles, he obtained authority to raise a regiment of cavalry, the equipment of which he purchased at his private expense at Louisville. With great ingenuity and daring he brought these supplies to Memphis after eluding the Federal authorities and defeating a body of troops with a force of seventy-five Kentucky Confederates he had called to his aid. With his regiment he joined the forces at Fort Donelson, and after distinguishing himself in the conflict with the Federals, led his men through the enemy's lines when surrender was determined upon. Joining Albert Sidney Johnston, he was in the heat of the fight at Shiloh, and though wounded refused to leave the field until the safety of the army was assured. Subsequently, the Federals having occupied middle Tennessee, Colonel Forrest made a series of brilliant cavalry movements into that territory that made his name famous throughout America Promoted brigadier-general July 21, 1862, he hung upon Buell's flank during the movement into Kentucky, protected Bragg's retreat, and while the army was in winter quarters actively covered the Federal front at Nashville, continually doing damage to the enemy. In 1863, in an effort to break Rosecrans' communications, he entered Tennessee with less than one thousand men, captured McMinnville, and surprised the garrison of 2,000 at Murfreesboro, capturing all the survivors of the fight, including-General Crittenden. General Streight, having started on a cavalry raid to Rome, Ga., was pursued and caught up with, and so impressed by Forrest's demand for surrender, that he turned over his entire command, which was in such disproportion to their captors that Forrest had to press into service all the citizens in reach to assist in forming an adequate guard. In the great battle of Chickamauga he commanded the cavalry of the right wing, and was distinguished in the fight, but he was so dissatisfied with the incompleteness of this Confederate victory that he tendered his resignation. Instead of its acceptance he was promoted major-general and assigned to the command of all cavalry in north Mississippi and west Tennessee, and the guardianship of the granary of the Confederacy. With a small force he entered west Tennessee and recruited several thousand hardy volunteers, which, with some veteran troops, he welded into the invincible body known as" Forrest's Cavalry." In February, 1864, General Smith with seven thousand mounted men was sent against him in co-operation with Sherman, but was utterly routed at Okolona and Prairie Mound. In return Forrest rode through Tennessee to the Ohio river, and captured Fort
Pillow, Union City and other posts with their garrisons. In June 8,300 Federals under General Sturgis entered Mississippi. Forrest had only 3,200 men, but at Brice's Cross Roads he struck the straggling Federal column at its head, crushed that, and then in detail routed successive brigades until Sturgis had suffered one of the most humiliating defeats of the war, losing all his trains and a third of his men. Gen. A. J. Smith renewed the invasion with 14,000 men, but retreated after a desperate battle at Harrisburg, near Tupelo. Reorganizing his beaten forces Smith again advanced with reinforcements from Memphis, and Forrest was compelled to foil the enemy by taking half his force and making a sixty-hour ride to Memphis, the daring entry of which compelled Smith's rapid retreat. Then for a time General Forrest made havoc with the Federal transportation, garrisons and depots in Tennessee, exploits crowned by the capture and destruction of six million dollars' worth of the enemy's supplies and a gunboat fleet, at Johnsonville,--"a feat of arms," wrote Sherman, "which I must confess excited my admiration." After the fall of Atlanta he joined Hood at Florence, and fought at Franklin and Nashville. As commander of the rear guard of the retreating Confederate army, Forrest displayed his most heroic qualities, with hardly a parallel but the famous deeds of Marshal Ney while covering Napoleon's retreat from Moscow. In February, 1865, he was promoted lieutenant-general, and given the duty of guarding the frontier from Decatur, Ala., to the Mississippi. With a few hundred hastily gathered men he made his last fight at Selma, and on May 9 he laid down his arms. It is stated that he was 179 times under fire in the four years, and he said, "My provost marshal's books will show that I have taken 31,000 prisoners." After the war he was president of the Selma, Marion and Memphis railroad until 1874. He died at Memphis, October 29, 1877. By European authority he is pronounced the most magnificent cavalry officer that America has produced.
---------------------------
Personally speaking -- Its not fair to compare the two. Clearly though; they were loved and admired for being who they were--in addition to what they did.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

 

[ole]

It comes down to this: Forrest was an enormously successful butthead. He, like Grant and Sherman and other civilians, had the stones for war. Without those. Grant would have been peddling leather, Sherman would have been a very nervous proctor of a military school, and Forrest and Shelby would have been a wealthy nebbishes.

It was the war that called out the qualities of these guys. (Let's not forget Mosby and Morgan and Custer.) As civilians, they were, well ...., civilians. (Misspoke, Custer was never a civilian.) But the fighting brought out qualities that would have otherwise been have overlooked.

Bring that hidden quality to date. Pick a member, any member. Do we have any idea of how he/she would function in a war? In command? (Fade to black. Cue the current generals.) Where did they come from and why are they generals? They won battles. If they rolled over pre-teens, they got credit. If they rolled over hardened troops, they got credit. If they got rolled over, they were pond scum.

We really do need to get back into the actuals.

Ole

 

[larry_cockerham]

It comes down to this: Forrest was an enormously successful butthead. We really do need to get back into the actuals.

Ole

The butthead part was what kept him alive through the war. Actually at about that point, the never ceasing interest that Mary Montgomery Forrest had in him began to blossom fruit. He changed his attitude and made the best of his years remaining, few as they were.

 

[Baggage Handler #2]

The butthead part was what kept him alive through the war. Actually at about that point, the never ceasing interest that Mary Montgomery Forrest had in him began to blossom fruit. He changed his attitude and made the best of his years remaining, few as they were.

Such is my understanding too. For purposes of history we can examine the acts of men and women, but really we know nothing of their souls and it is well to keep that in mind as we discuss them, northerner or southerner.

Thanks.

 

[larry_cockerham]

None of you have mentioned John Hunt Morgan. He should get a couple of votes. Yes, he was a raider, but such was badly needed in the South.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Everyone talks about Forrest Deeds???

Jo Shelby fought in battles where He alone with his men made the difference in the out come the battle(more then once). Forrest never made a difference in any battles that he may have been at.

Jo Shelby as Forest led raids into and behind the union lines with the same and equal success....

Forrest lost control of his men and they murder hundreds of union soldiers....He may not have order it but he was in command so it fall on his shoulders...no excuses

There is no known event as discuss above happen on Jo Shelby's watch, heck his men follow him to Mexico---

Would Forrest men have followed him to Mexico? I guess not...

What deeds did Forrest do in battle that exceed Shelby's none but Shelby does have deeds in battle that exceed Forrest...

Lets face it Forrest was a Highwayman and Jo Shelby was a cavalry man...

A muse--

There must be some firewater around here somewhere?

 

[trice]

None of you have mentioned John Hunt Morgan. He should get a couple of votes. Yes, he was a raider, but such was badly needed in the South.

Morgan was a bold, talented cavalry raider who provided great service to the Confederacy throughout 1862. The raids of Forrest and Morgan in Middle TN gained the essential time for Bragg's move to Chattanooga and subsequent invasion of Kentucky, then delayed the Federal buildup in Nashville during Bragg's retreat. Morgan's destruction of the RR tunnel above Nashville was a major hindrance to Rosecrans in the months before Murfreesborough.

The problem with Morgan is that he pretty much went down from that peak. Some blame it on his getting re-married, but I have no idea if that was really a factor or just co-incidence.

In June of 1863 he makes his big mistake. In direct violation of orders, he heads north across the Ohio. His wild ride leads directly to the destruction and capture of his troops while accomplishing little. Even worse, he does it as Rosecrans launches the Tullahoma Campaign; he might not have been able to help Bragg much if he had followed orders, but his raid didn't help Bragg at all.

After he escaped, he was essentially sidelined to backwaters by the Confederacy. He was being investigated for banditry when he was surprised and killed in a raid in September 1864.

I think Morgan was a capable man, but I think as well he was promoted too fast and ended up at too high a post. Maybe he felt the pressure of having to live up to his early success; my Dad tells me that nothing is worse for a man than huge early success without trials and tribulations. No matter how you look at it, the early promise of John Hunt Morgan makes the end of his career a tragedy.

Tim

 

[The Iron Duke]

Did Morgan ever command anything larger than a brigade?

 

[Elennsar]

Morgan took what were organized as two brigades on his raid into Ohio, I don't know enough about his career after that to know how seriously to take the organization.

Said "brigades" were only a total of roughly 2,500 men though (eight or nine regiments I beleive) - so whether you count that as a true division or not is a good question.

 

[Baggage Handler #2]

Once upon a time, in the old Dewey section of the college library I found a book which asserted Morgan didn't actually escape, but bribed his way out. Something about the tunnel not actually going all the way through the wall, I think.

Anyhoo... I cross his route on a fairly regular basis.

 

[Borderruffian]

Everyone talks about Forrest Deeds???

Jo Shelby fought in battles where He alone with his men made the difference in the out come the battle(more then once). Forrest never made a difference in any battles that he may have been at.

Alot of those actions were involved with covering retreats and keeping the main body from being cut up.

Jo Shelby as Forest led raids into and behind the union lines with the same and equal success....
Not in numbers like NBF and not against the caliber of troops NBF rode against. Research the troops who were garrisoning Missouri and Arkansas and then compare them and their leader ship to the AotC & AotT.

Forrest lost control of his men and they murder hundreds of union soldiers....He may not have order it but he was in command so it fall on his shoulders...no excuses

There are some dark incidents in Shelby's past also especially in the pre-war fighting, and possibly in the early war independant command period.

There is no known event as discuss above happen on Jo Shelby's watch, heck his men follow him to Mexico---

Not all of them .
Forrest men have followed him to Mexico? I guess not...

Some asked NFB to do just that he refused and surrendered.

What deeds did Forrest do in battle that exceed Shelby's none but Shelby does have deeds in battle that exceed Forrest...
In total given the theater and opposition and sheer numbers Forrest trumps Shelby

Lets face it Forrest was a Highwayman and Jo Shelby was a cavalry man...

Negative both were outstanding raiders,NFB simply has the edge.
A muse--

J.O. Shelby is perhaps my favorite commander of the war, but NFB has the edge due to many reasons already discussed in a previous thread.

 

[Nathanb1]

Border Ruffian is right! NBF was begged to head to Mexico and raise an army (or vice versa). He refused (read his surrender letter). He also, in case you're too illiterate to read--called for disbanding the Klan. (Another case of an idea that got out of hand). After becoming a Christian thanks to Mary Ann, he actually addressed black civic groups around Memphis. I'm not saying given the opportunity that Jo Shelby couldn't have become everything Forrest was and more--but he didn't. Where are the gunboats? The captured troops and materials? The thousand-mile raids across four states? The dead yanks killed hand to hand? And, Ole, I'm not sure that being a butthead is such a bad thing for a general. Pretty sure that term may have been applied to Jackson and Patton at times.

 

[Scribe]

J.O. Shelby is perhaps my favorite commander of the war, but NFB has the edge due to many reasons already discussed in a previous thread.

While I'm not much of a fan of V.O. (Vastly Overrated) Forrest, he certainly outshined Shelby.

Much of what we think we know about Shelby comes from the writings of John N. Edwards. Edwards was a newspaperman before the rebellion, Shelby's adjutant during the rebellion (in which role he wrote most of Shelby's action reports now found in the OR), and a newspaperman and author of some books after the rebellion.

Edwards was the Baron Munchausen of the rebellion and after... never one to let facts interfer with what he thought was a good story. He exaggerated/lied in Shelby's reports, exaggerated/lied in his newspaper writings and books. In addition to portraying Shelby as a some kind of Sir Walter Scott knight errant, Edwards was the greater defender and mythmaker of the post-war career of the James Gang. Oh, and he had nothing but good to say about Quantrill in his book Noted Guerrilas.

 

[Borderruffian]

John Newman Edwards was a great lover of purple prose and a master of the embellished exagerration, both in his writing concerning J.O. Shelby and other writing's about the Border Guerillas and later the James Younger Gang. While certainly enjoyable to read, Edwards should always be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.

 

[larry_cockerham]

While I'm not much of a fan of V.O. (Vastly Overrated) Forrest, he certainly outshined Shelby.

[/I].

V.O. Forrest stands on his record.

 

[Baggage Handler #2]

I'm with Larry on this one.
He certainly seems to have had the ability to read what was going on in the field much better than most (read: all) of his contemporaries.

 

[Nathanb1]

The thing that impresses me is his ability to bluff the other side (frequently) into surrendering, even though he was totally outnumbered and outgunned. I wouldn't have wanted to get in a poker game with him.