Collection Sharps Carbine Info

[Blauner335]

Hello all! I'm looking to help find out more information about my Sharps Carbine - specifically the correct model number and if I could trace it to unit(s), among others. It looks like it has been thru a lot so I am very curious of connecting it to any history. I inherited this piece from my grandfather.

The serial number is marked 66961. From what I can find online, I can't seem to match model by serial number ranges. There is also a number 12 stamped on the stock (pictured) and another smaller stamping further up that in illegible but might be 'COA8.' My grandfather talked of it being converted after the war to fire a different cartridge, but am not sure of this either, and if this could be my troubles in properly identifying it.

 

[plymouthairrifle]

Looks to be in very good condition. Your carbine is not listed in the Springfield Research database, sorry. Your Grandfather is correct, it was converted to fire a cartridge post war. Most of the conversions were 50-70 and about 27,000 were done. Many saw use in the Indian wars.

 

[BigBore]

Your Sharps carbine has been converted to fire the .50-70 Government cartridge. Approximately 30,000 carbines were converted in 1867-1868 and were used mainly in the Indian wars. Springfield Armory oversaw the conversions with Sharps manufacturing new breechblocks and SA boring, lining and rifling the .52 caliber barrels to .50-70 Govt. Sharps performed the final assembly.

 

[UCVRelics]

Hello all! I'm looking to help find out more information about my Sharps Carbine - specifically the correct model number and if I could trace it to unit(s), among others. It looks like it has been thru a lot so I am very curious of connecting it to any history. I inherited this piece from my grandfather.

The serial number is marked 66961. From what I can find online, I can't seem to match model by serial number ranges. There is also a number 12 stamped on the stock (pictured) and another smaller stamping further up that in illegible but might be 'COA8.' My grandfather talked of it being converted after the war to fire a different cartridge, but am not sure of this either, and if this could be my troubles in properly identifying it.

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Great Looking old war horse. View attachment 426625 Great Looking Old War Horse. Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

What did your grandpa say about where he got this gun and what he know about it?
As you have been told, this was made in percussion, but after the War, in about 1867, it was converted to shoot the .50-70 cartridge.
This conversion was intended to make this obsolete percussion carbine into an up to date cartridge gun.

 

[Blauner335]

What did your grandpa say about where he got this gun and what he know about it?
As you have been told, this was made in percussion, but after the War, in about 1867, it was converted to shoot the .50-70 cartridge.
This conversion was intended to make this obsolete percussion carbine into an up to date cartridge gun.

Thanks everyone for your information. I am trying to find out about how he acquired it, but I believe it was just from a dealer or equivalent, maybe even locally, which I am hoping.

Would anyone know what model year the carbine originally was? I am hoping it's a model 1859, for the reason that my local area was home of the 42nd PA Vol Infantry regiment, also known as the 'Bucktail' regiment or 'Kane's Rifles.' They were a special regiment that was issued Sharps 1859 Carbines, but I only see model 1859's with patch boxes which this does not have. But it also seems like the 27,000 rifles that were made to fire cartridges were of the model 1859 variety? I have so much to learn.

History is so much fun!

 

[Blauner335]

Looks like I was wrong above and the 1863's were also converted to .50-70's, but my serial number is below the 1863 range and in the 1859 range. It almost gives me goosebumps thinking I could have a rifle that might match my local company!

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

When these were converted, the old butt stocks were replaced with new ones, with no patchbox, and a special cartouche in a ribbon stamped on the left side of the butt stock.
That stamp is about where you mentioned seeing some other mark.
The Bucktails were issued rifles and not carbines. They were infantry, not cavalry.
The conversions in 1867 didn't happen locally, but at the Sharps Company, and these revised Sharps carbines were issued as needed to the cavalry.

 

[JOHN42768]

Look on the top of the barrel between the rear sight and the breech and you should see new model 1859 or new model 1863. Post as photo of the Co.8 marking. The 12 is most likely a rack number. I see no arc rubbed across the butt back near the end which would have indicated use by a Cavalry unit. When in a scabbard the motion of riding rubs the wood against the saddle leaving a rub in the wood.

 

[Blauner335]

Look on the top of the barrel between the rear sight and the breech and you should see new model 1859 or new model 1863. Post as photo of the Co.8 marking.

It was right under the rear site, just had to flip it up. Thank you! Model 1859 it is! Looking at its rifling, it's 6 grooves - I've read where some were re-bored to 3 grooves on conversion so it looks like it's original if I'm correct there.

I've been looking at calavary regiments for the Indian Wars - looks like there were only 10 - was hoping the 12 on the stock might correspond to that to start digging but it must be something else. Also found some more non legible markings forward of the hammer, included a picture of that as well.

 

[Blauner335]

When these were converted, the old butt stocks were replaced with new ones, with no patchbox, and a special cartouche in a ribbon stamped on the left side of the butt stock.
That stamp is about where you mentioned seeing some other mark.
The Bucktails were issued rifles and not carbines. They were infantry, not cavalry.
The conversions in 1867 didn't happen locally, but at the Sharps Company, and these revised Sharps carbines were issued as needed to the cavalry.

Thanks! I wasn't thinking when I thought a carbine might go to an infantry regiment.

 

[JOHN42768]

The marking is on the barrel not on the sight. That photo is the sight info. The stock marking doesn't appear to be original although it has been there a while. The letters are individually and sort of random placed. See: http://mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/02_firearms/02_item_008.htm This will give you an idea of what that should look like. Yours may have been someones name. Six groove barrels would have been the original barrel. The three groove were the relined ones at Springfield Arsenal

 

[Blauner335]

The marking is on the barrel not on the sight. That photo is the sight info. The stock marking doesn't appear to be original although it has been there a while. The letters are individually and sort of random placed. See: http://mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/02_firearms/02_item_008.htm This will give you an idea of what that should look like. Yours may have been someones name. Six groove barrels would have been the original barrel. The three groove were the relined ones at Springfield Arsenal

I can't find any markings on the barrel, unfortunately. I don't know if I would have any luck removing the forestock and finding any under that.

I am going to try and get the stock under better light to see if I can see any faint markings.

 

[JOHN42768]

The marking on barrel under forestock will be serial number. Might be worn

 

[johan_steele]

I don't know what is wrong with my computer, I can't seem to get this picture big enough to show the detail. Arggg.

Anyway you certainly have a Sharps Carbine that was converted to .50-70 centerfire from 1867-1870. New stocks were provided where needed, enough so that replacement unissued original stocks can still be found occasionally.

Many of these continued in service well into the 1890's with Indian scouts. At one point arms were issued by type to scouts from certain tribes. Sharps to say Crow, Spencers to Arikara, Rolling block to Pawnee etc (don't quote me on the tribes) in an effort to keep the various scouts from counting coup on each other by stealing their weapons. There were something like 20 different tribes that supplied scouts to the US Army up through the Span Am War with the last pensioned Indian Scout passing just after WW2 IIRC.

Just a little more info on your lovely Sharps. Incidently these are a dream to shoot w/ the recoil not being what you would expect from a .50-70 cartridge.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I can't find any markings on the barrel, unfortunately. I don't know if I would have any luck removing the forestock and finding any under that.

I am going to try and get the stock under better light to see if I can see any faint markings.

Remember these were polished and refinished when converted to the .50-70 cartridge.
The mark showing "model 1859" would be on top of barrel between the rear sight and the breach.

 

[Blauner335]

There are no signs of markings between the rear sight and breach. Attached a photo.

As for the markings on the stock. It looks like only certain regiments did it, and that it wasn't technically authorized to be done, and not all of them similar. I've seen a few different types of markings so far. This is just purely hypothetical, but if the 'COA8' means anything outside of someone's name, this could be it:

Company A, Soldier 8

I've seen other markings similar like 'CAV#' that stood for Calvary + Soldier # Assigned. I can't figure out anything about the number 12 that's on the stock, unless that would also point to a soldier assigned number and not a unit number and be independent of the 'COA8.' The 12th Calvary wasn't formed until 1901.