Request Information on Shul Enfield

Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Location
Spotsylvania Virginia
I have a Shul enfield that is the pride of my small arms collection, since it’s my only antique rifle.
I don’t know much about this rifle excep it was manufactured in Germany and I THINK the parts weren’t interchangeable.
I can’t find any dates on it except there is a stamp on the barrel near the hammer but I can’t make it out.
(2nd photo) I would like any information some of you more knowledge gun collectors might have
Thanks in advance
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Rusk County Avengers

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Yeah, that's not an Enfield in any way shape or form....

It looks to my rather undereducated eyes on them, a cut down percussion Prussian M1809 musket produced in Suhl. A cut down musket is basically sporterized.

"Enfields" were a British arm, usually meaning the P1853, designed, but not always made in Enfield, England. Suhl, like Potsdam models, were made in Prussia, (later part of Germany).
 
Joined
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Location
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Thanks again.
It’s the only antique rifle I own and has been hanging on the wall for twenty plus years . I am glad I know more about it now.
I have about a dozen pistols- most of which were late nineteenth century. My best CW era is a Whitfield Allen. .... or at least it’s what I ve been told. Picked it up at an antique auction years ago for pennies. I think it’s been modified though like the Shul
 
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Actually this is a German Federal Navy Model 1849 Musket. The photos are pretty blurry, but I see what looks like an Andrew Wurfflein/City of Philadelphia inspection stamp on the breech. This identifies the musket as being part of 500 "Prussian muskets" purchased by the City of Philadelphia.

As others have commented, the gun has been shortened.
 

Craig L Barry

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Murfreesboro, TN
Checking the search feature of the forum revealed an earlier thread on the topic of Suhl Enfields:

 
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Location
Spotsylvania Virginia
Actually this is a German Federal Navy Model 1849 Musket. The photos are pretty blurry, but I see what looks like an Andrew Wurfflein/City of Philadelphia inspection stamp on the breech. This identifies the musket as being part of 500 "Prussian muskets" purchased by the City of Philadelphia.

As others have commented, the gun has been shortened.
Many thanks Garyrock. You are correct speculating about the Philadelphia stamp being on the breach
Do you think the trigger guard is correct? Someone commented that it didn’t look correct
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Location
Spotsylvania Virginia
Actually this is a German Federal Navy Model 1849 Musket. The photos are pretty blurry, but I see what looks like an Andrew Wurfflein/City of Philadelphia inspection stamp on the breech. This identifies the musket as being part of 500 "Prussian muskets" purchased by the City of Philadelphia.

As others have commented, the gun has been shortened.
Much appreciated Garyrock.
You are correct- it is a City of Philadelphia stamp on the breach. I guess being a navy rifle would also explain the anchor stamp?
Do you think the trigger guard is correct? Someone mentioned it didn’t look correct.
 

Rusk County Avengers

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Checking the search feature of the forum revealed an earlier thread on the topic of Suhl Enfields:


I saw the thread title and got excited. Suhl copies of Enfields are rare, but personally I find their Springfields the most interesting.
 

Rusk County Avengers

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Actually this is a German Federal Navy Model 1849 Musket. The photos are pretty blurry, but I see what looks like an Andrew Wurfflein/City of Philadelphia inspection stamp on the breech. This identifies the musket as being part of 500 "Prussian muskets" purchased by the City of Philadelphia.

As others have commented, the gun has been shortened.

Just for the record, I honestly thought this first, then decided "Nah, its gotta be a post war cut down."

Once more I made the bad call!
 
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Location
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I saw the thread title and got excited. Suhl copies of Enfields are rare, but personally I find their Springfields the most interesting.
Sorry I misguided you with the thread title. I thought it was an enfield but apparently I was mistaken. Mark it as my ignorance. Greyrock’s evaluation seems to be the most accurate assessment so far... a Shul / City of Philadelphia federal navy model that had been shorted.
 

Rusk County Avengers

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Isnt this the make of rifle in the American Rifle issue that I sent you??

Yes it is. I knew of them before hand didn't have much information, so when you offered I accepted!

I've played with the idea of getting a repro kit of M1861 just to build it up as a duplicate I would be comfortable shooting and or reenacting with.
 

James N.

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Many thanks for the information. I now know a lot of new things. I had always been under the impression an enfield was determined by length of the rifle not where it was made. It makes sense now. Thank you so much
To admittedly grossly simplify a complex subject, Enfield is an industrial town in England where there was (is?) located the National Armory that produced arms for the British Empire. They were considered among the best or THE best percussion arms at the time and therefore highly desirable by both the Union and the Confederacy. However, strict neutrality prevented the British Government from selling arms to either belligerent, so it was English private gunmakers who stepped up to answer the demand, selling freely (but usually covertly) guns of this design to both sides. Primarily they came in two lengths, longer so-called "3 band" for infantry and shorter "2 band" for artillery and often cavalry use. (The designation refers to the number of barrel bands used to hold the barrel to the stock; therefore the length of the barrel.)
 

Rusk County Avengers

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Sorry I misguided you with the thread title. I thought it was an enfield but apparently I was mistaken. Mark it as my ignorance. Greyrock’s evaluation seems to be the most accurate assessment so far... a Shul / City of Philadelphia federal navy model that had been shorted.

Don't worry I'm pretty ignorant on the issue myself. Go with @Grayrock Volunteer assessment, anytime I come across a gun I'm not sure about I know he'll know what it is every time.
 

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