Limited Debate REMOVING CONFEDERATE MONUMENTS?

[CSA Today]

I don’t think that Yankees have lost their identity. They understood and continue to understand that this country is something new in the history of the world. No matter where you are from, you can become an American and realize the American Dream. One of the complaints of southerners was that the Union Army wasn’t really American... many of them were German, Irish (heaven forbid), and even Eastern European or Italian. Gasp. Be still my heart. Why wouldn’t these people just go back where they came from?

These Yankees understood and understand that the business and duty of America is to make good on the promises of the Declaration and make sure that the definition of “all men created equal” continues to expand until that statement becomes fact. According to the Vice President of the so called CSA, the rebel government was founded on the “exact opposite” ideal.

They didn't a very good job of it.

 

[CivilWarTalk]

Thanks for all the discussion on this topic. This discussion is now set to limited, and the thread will be closed soon.

If the debate becomes a problem at any point, it may be closed sooner than currently planned, so please do not use this deadline as an opportunity to inflame the discussion, chances are your post won't be approved anyway.

 

[19thGeorgia]

I don’t think that Yankees have lost their identity. They understood and continue to understand that this country is something new in the history of the world. No matter where you are from, you can become an American and realize the American Dream. One of the complaints of southerners was that the Union Army wasn’t really American... many of them were German, Irish (heaven forbid), and even Eastern European or Italian. Gasp. Be still my heart. Why wouldn’t these people just go back where they came from?

That's a gross misrepresentation. The Confederates objected because the Germans, Irish, etc, had been enticed by agents of the US government to come to America and then went into the army straight off the boat. Most of the anti-immigrant elements were in the North.

These Yankees understood and understand that the business and duty of America is to make good on the promises of the Declaration and make sure that the definition of “all men created equal”....

The North (the Union) was a white supremacist society and government - and as much committed to that view as anyone else. They had black codes and exclusion laws based on race. They used slave labor all through the war. And they made extensive use of (black) contraband labor of which most of the laborers were never paid - creating a condition worse than plantation slavery.

 

[WJC]

The North (the Union) was a white supremacist society and government - and as much committed to that view as anyone else.

As we have often agreed here, virtually everyone at that time was a racist by today's standards. The difference was that some thought slavery morally acceptable while others thought it evil.

 

[WJC]

And they made extensive use of (black) contraband labor of which most of the laborers were never paid - creating a condition worse than plantation slavery.

The question was what to do about the thousands of slaves who entered U. S. lines in search of freedom. One option was to do nothing- let them fend for themselves. Another option was to allow them to remain idle in camps and provide them food and water. A third option was to allow those who could to work. That last was the option that was selected, and- I believe- the best option.
Some did not get properly paid. But were they worse off than in "plantation slavery"? From the records, letters and family tales it appears they didn't think so. For the first time in their lives, they had hope.
That is more worthy of remembering than some idealistic, self-serving, 'feel-good', fantasy portrayed in some post-war memorials.

 

[CSA Today]

As we have often agreed here, virtually everyone at that time was a racist by today's standards. The difference was that some thought slavery morally acceptable while others thought it evil.

New England cotton mill owners were good examples.

 

[ErnieMac]

Posted as Moderator: We are way off the topic of removing monuments. Bring it back or the thread will be closed.

 

[JerseyBart]

two deleted/unapproved posts after @civilwartalk gave a friendly reminder and update. time to lock this thread.

posted as moderator