Relic Sword ID

[Craig789]

This sword is in Georgia. It is around 34" blade and 38.5" overall. I do not see any markings on it. Would greatly appreciate some help in identifying.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Welcome to CivilWarTalk from the Book Review Forum. I'm not sure what this sword is, if it's CW it looks foreign to me.

I'll drag out a book or two to see if I can find out what is, but there are more qualified folks on swords here that'll know what it is right off the bat.

 

[lelliott19]

Hello Craig and welcome to CivilWarTalk - the best place on the internet for Civil War discussion!

I'm not sure what this sword is,

I don't know either... it kind of looks sorta like a M1833 Dragoon saber. The blade is the right length at 34" but that model didn't have those tabs that go outside the scabbard. I think they're called langets? And the quillion on the M1833 was different - fancier and curlier. Are there any markings on the blade under the langets? Maybe @Glen_C James N. @ucvrelics or some others will be along who will know what saber you have.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I'm not finding anything in my books of American swords so far, and doesn't look like a M1833 Dragoon in any way to me. It could be some non-regulation or oddball contract make. The entire grip assembly doesn't look right to me, hence why I'm leaning towards a foreign make that could be postwar. It'd help if any markings on the sword were shown to us though....

Oh well, I'll leave it to the sword experts and collectors, unless I find something later.

If I were to guess, I would say its a Frenchy, though there are still a lot of things wrong with that, especially the scabbard. The reason I say that is because the only sword that comes to my mind as to its resemblance is a Napoleonic French Hussar's sword, though it doesn't match. But then again I'm not a sword guru!

 

[UCVRelics]

Interesting sword. I'm leaning 18oo's Bavarian Cav sword.

 

[Cavalier]

@ucvrelics May I ask, is there's something that especially leads you to that conclusion, even though it may not be definite. I am no expert but I have some French sources (books) and could find nothing there, not done looking yet though. From what very little knowledge I have, it doesn't look French to me.

Thanks, John

 

[James N.]

@ucvrelics May I ask, is there's something that especially leads you to that conclusion, even though it may not be definite. I am no expert but I have some French sources (books) and could find nothing there, not done looking yet though. From what very little knowledge I have, it doesn't look French to me.

Thanks, John

Interesting sword. I'm leaning 18oo's Bavarian Cav sword.

Yes, this is definitely neither American (including Confederate), British, nor French. I suspect it IS European and pretty definitely from the 1800 - 1870 period. The suggestion it may be of Bavarian or some other Central European source is definitely a good guess. Most of those then-small countries were at different times the allies of the French, Prussians, and Austrians and their arms show definite similarities and are sometimes direct copies but can now be hard to pin down. In addition to Bavaria, Saxony, Anhalt, Mecklenburg, Wurttemberg, several different Hesses, Westphalia, and others were all more or less independent states at the time until they were unified under Prussia in the wake of the wars with Austria and France.

 

[James N.]

This sword is in Georgia. It is around 34" blade and 38.5" overall. I do not see any markings on it. Would greatly appreciate some help in identifying. View attachment 363462View attachment 363463View attachment 363464View attachment 363465View attachment 363466

By the way, your sword, though it's admittedly seen better days, is far from being in relic condition, which I expected when I looked at this thread. Welcome to the forums!

 

[Cavalier]

I came across a sight called S B G Swords on the internet, (which I am totally incompetent at using), and there is a comment that Bavarian swords that look very much like the one in the above photo, having the same features for the most part, were shipped to the U.S. and Mexico prior to the Civil War. I don't know how reliable a source that sight would be, however the posters there seem very knowledgable.

In any case, @Craig789 , it's very nice, I wish it was mine, and thanks for posting the photos.

John

 

[Craig789]

Thank you all for your research and welcoming comments.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Welcome. Neat looking sword.

 

[UCVRelics]

I came across a sight called S B G Swords on the internet, (which I am totally incompetent at using), and there is a comment that Bavarian swords that look very much like the one in the above photo, having the same features for the most part, were shipped to the U.S. and Mexico prior to the Civil War. I don't know how reliable a source that sight would be, however the posters there seem very knowledgable.

In any case, @Craig789 , it's very nice, I wish it was mine, and thanks for posting the photos.

John

We have discussed this sword on the International Sword Forum and the parts shipped to the US the SBG refers to were some that were made by WH Horstmann but all of the ones that have turned up were well marked "W H Horstmann" The above sword IMHO is a model 1826 Bavarian cavalry sword.

 

[Glen_C]

All them there katana look alike

I'd rule out Bavaria but there are some similarities to their 1826 (steel hilt, no langet). Possibly one of the other German states and the grip work typical of Solingen work but it is easy to jump to conclusions. I'm not sure why I sense Belgian but I'll poke around a bit. Later in the 19th century than the ACW period, imo.

I am the poster at SBG and the Horstmann swords are not brass and are mostly straight bladed, that form very possibly Saxon.

A Horstmann marked sabre that is "similar". Gold wash on steel hilt but not the rounded langet profile

I have more notes somewhere regarding Spanish (1830 models) and Portuguese. There are several threads out there with the Bavarian 1826 sabre mentioned but the sword above, imo, is not a Bavarian sword. Horstmann and Lee are two US marked sources for these types of hilts but as you can see, differ from the sword in question. Later Bavarian 1826 forms up to the 20th century are even more disimilar.

I am Glen C at SFI and edelweiss at SBG

Cheers
GC

Quick addendum. Old Swords (subscription gallery) shows what is listed as a brass hilted Bavarian 1826 but again, no langet. The Medicus Collection book from Flayderman and Mowbray show an example like my straight sword shown above.