Reinforcing Sickles

[Irishtom29]

It seems that reinforcing Sickles west of Plum Run was done helter skelter without any sort of plan and resulted in very high losses to the troops of the Second and Fifth Corps who were fed in. Was anyone in overall command of these efforts? Seeing as in the end the Federal line was stabilized east of Plum Run would it not have been better to have formed a new line to the east of Sickles and just let him hang? Or were things just happening so fast the Federals were forced to react, trying to put out a fire at a time? Who was in charge on the spot?

 

[Northern Light]

Well, I would guess, as Sickles choose move forward and Meade only realized this as the Confederates began to fire on Sickles thin line, soldiers were placed in as quickly as possible to reinforce his very thin line. Meade sent men in as quickly as possible, but as it was rather chaotic and as Dirty Dan had disrupted his original plan of defense, Meade did the best he could to salvage the situation. I am sure others will jump in with their opinions and expertise to help, but that is my take.

 

[Tom Elmore]

A plan involves something considered beforehand, and that was not possible under the circumstances. Effective command and control was rather difficult to attain in that era. As for forming a new line, there was little good ground to be had to the east, which is why Sickles claimed he moved forward in the first place. At least portions of Sickles' line held fairly firm for a time, which could be bolstered profitably by reinforcements. To have written off the entire Third Corps at the outset would have been unwise in my opinion. Thoroughly disrupted forces do not rally for long, because they are scattered over the field along with their leaders, and the few who remain with their colors as a cohesive force cannot long resist superior organized numbers under firm leadership, as was proven that day. It took time for the strong Sixth Corps to arrive and finally save the day, which was possible because the Union forces on the scene (including substantial reinforcements that were sent forward in piecemeal fashion) were able to hold off the Confederates just long enough.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

There were insufficient troops available to make that line tenable. Period.

And your question assumes that the move forward was not only planned but sanctioned by the Army of the Potomac's high command. Neither was the case. They had little choice but to make it up as they went on the fly.

 

[ivanj05]

I suppose in theory Meade could have tried to move Caldwell's division and the Fifth Corps into the spot Third Corps was supposed to be in in the first place and just left Sickles to fend for himself, but I doubt that would ultimately produce a markedly better result, and it would mean Meade was essentially writing off an entire corps of his army which doesn't seem consistent with his character.

 

[Irishtom29]

And your question assumes that the move forward was not only planned but sanctioned by the Army of the Potomac's high command. Neither was the case. They had little choice but to make it up as they went on the fly.

In this case did Meade then have much to do with how that part of the battle was fought? If he wasn't in control should he have been? Or maybe, could he have been? And why would the Second and Fifth Corps divisions fed into the wheat field area would've been insufficient to stop Longstreet's two divisions had they been placed on a better line? A matter of timing?

I'm not making a case here but trying to understand what was going on and why. Lots of Federal troops were destroyed because they were used to reinforce a salient, not generally considered a wise thing to do, as events proved.

 

[Yankeedave]

Meade seems to reenforce one line (sicklish) and build another (mcgilvery) reenforced by the retreating third, and a third line with the sixth corps.

 

[Tom Elmore]

I believe Sickles was right about the advantages of his new position, but he needed at least twice the men to hold it, and he should have sought permission from his commanding officer before risking the fate of the entire army. Just from artillery fire alone, he damaged one brigade (Anderson), and partially destroyed two other brigades (Kershaw and Semmes) before his infantry fired a shot. That same high ground along the Emmitsburg Road was an essential position for Confederate artillery on July 3. So it was an irresistible lure that proved the undoing of both armies, on separate days.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

In this case did Meade then have much to do with how that part of the battle was fought? If he wasn't in control should he have been? Or maybe, could he have been? And why would the Second and Fifth Corps divisions fed into the wheat field area would've been insufficient to stop Longstreet's two divisions had they been placed on a better line? A matter of timing?

I'm not making a case here but trying to understand what was going on and why. Lots of Federal troops were destroyed because they were used to reinforce a salient, not generally considered a wise thing to do, as events proved.

Sickles disobeyed his orders. Meade tried to move Sickles back to the position he had been assigned, but it was too late--the Confederate attack was about to kick off. There simply wasn't time.

 

[Yankeedave]

Yeah, sickles was outnumbered. once col. alexander boxed three sides of the compass it was only a matter of time before sickles collapsed. it's mcgilvery's new line that stabalizes it. remnets of the third reform here and assist the other corps in launch counterattacks.

 

[ivanj05]

In this case did Meade then have much to do with how that part of the battle was fought? If he wasn't in control should he have been? Or maybe, could he have been? And why would the Second and Fifth Corps divisions fed into the wheat field area would've been insufficient to stop Longstreet's two divisions had they been placed on a better line? A matter of timing?

I'm not making a case here but trying to understand what was going on and why. Lots of Federal troops were destroyed because they were used to reinforce a salient, not generally considered a wise thing to do, as events proved.

A couple of things are at play here. One, Meade simply cannot hang Sickles out to dry once the Third Corps was under attack. Two, the en echelon attack by Longstreet not only served to counter Meade's efforts to reinforce Sickles line but also served to create new emergencies for the AoP to react to. Third, until the Sixth Corps arrived Meade simply lacked sufficient reserves to simultaneously reinforce Sickles and plug the gaping hole Sickles movement had created. For all the criticism Meade has received for pulling most of the XII Corps off Culp's Hill, much of which is valid, there were no troops left on the Union left to throw into the line until Sedgwick showed up.

Overall, it should also be kept in mind that it is much more difficult to reinforce an advanced position under fire than it is to reinforce a position along interior lines. The Union response to Longstreet's attack isn't, IMO, a failure of command and control insomuch as it is about a chaotic situation and the inherent breakdowns that come from such.

 

[Yankeedave]

It's like someone finally realizes this attack is real and is rushing reinforcements to the area.

 

[Irishtom29]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful.

 

[FZ11]

I believe Sickles was right about the advantages of his new position, but he needed at least twice the men to hold it, and he should have sought permission from his commanding officer before risking the fate of the entire army. Just from artillery fire alone, he damaged one brigade (Anderson), and partially destroyed two other brigades (Kershaw and Semmes) before his infantry fired a shot. That same high ground along the Emmitsburg Road was an essential position for Confederate artillery on July 3. So it was an irresistible lure that proved the undoing of both armies, on separate days.

No. Sickles was wrong. Sickles advanced position has his flanks in the air,is not connected to Hancock's position,and is not connected to the natural defensive position of Little Round Top as assigned to Sickles by Meade.

 

[Yankeedave]

After warnings from LRT signal towers, gen. henry hunt,skirmishers, hancock (they'll soon come tumbleing back cause he see's the enemy) and others, meade reacts, finally?

 

[rpkennedy]

After warnings from LRT signal towers, gen. henry hunt,skirmishers, hancock (they'll soon come tumbleing back cause he see's the enemy) and others, meade reacts, finally?

Are you implying that Meade should've done something sooner?

Ryan

 

[Yankeedave]

If Meade's timing was what Meade wanted, he succeeded in creating a series of buffers that crumbled, absorbing blows, the main line getting hit with what was left of Longstreet.

 

[Bee]

After warnings from LRT signal towers, gen. henry hunt,skirmishers, hancock (they'll soon come tumbleing back cause he see's the enemy) and others, meade reacts, finally?

If Meade's timing was what Meade wanted, he succeeded in creating a series of buffers that crumbled, absorbing blows, the main line getting hit with what was left of Longstreet.

I am not sure what is being said, here. There was consultation & discussion via Meade's aide as to the placement of Sickle's corps. Sickles made the final decision to create the salient, but before the action could be corrected, the battle had commenced. Once the battle was in progress, all that could be be done was on the spot compensation for whatever weaknesses developed as a product of Sickles change of plan.

 

[Yankeedave]

The was more than one consultation. there was more than one actor.
if the third stayed in position could it have held there? they are outnumbered and facing some of any army's best. can 9,000 men be expected to hold almost a mile of ground. if this position is so great why isn't the fifth corps sent here. re-enforcing the third's bad spot you say. the third and longstreet be danged, just have the fifth and second corps division sent to the "proper" spot. battle won. why not then?

 

[ivanj05]

The was more than one consultation. there was more than one actor.
if the third stayed in position could it have held there? they are outnumbered and facing some of any army's best. can 9,000 men be expected to hold almost a mile of ground. if this position is so great why isn't the fifth corps sent here. re-enforcing the third's bad spot you say. the third and longstreet be danged, just have the fifth and second corps division sent to the "proper" spot. battle won. why not then?

Because Meade couldn't leave Sickles entire corps out in the middle of nowhere to be immolated, and it was too late for Sickles to fall back.