Regimental Flags

[G Low]

I was looking at my ancestors regimental flag on display in the Kennesaw Mt. battle field Museum in Georgia.It has Cherokee Dragoons on it , The motto on top says "EITHER WITH IT OR UP ON IT". I've been reading about it, it goes way back to Spartan Soldiers saying that they will return with their shield or be carried dead back home upon it. This flag is two sided with the original Confederate flag on the other side. What other mottos were used on other regimental flags and were there many two sided flags.

 

[Trooper "D"]

You have to write your answer as a question says Alex.
Good question though. I don't recall such a thing in my memory. I hope you get some responses.
Cheers!

 

[Rhea Cole]

I was looking at my ancestors regimental flag on display in the Kennesaw Mt. battle field Museum in Georgia.It has Cherokee Dragoons on it , The motto on top says "EITHER WITH IT OR UP ON IT". I've been reading about it, it goes way back to Spartan Soldiers saying that they will return with their shield or be carried dead back home upon it. This flag is two sided with the original Confederate flag on the other side. What other mottos were used on other regimental flags and were there many two sided flags.View attachment 526039

Here is a group of links to state Civil War flag collections:

https://vault.georgiaarchives.org/digital/collection/flag/search

CONTENTdm

digital.archives.alabama.gov

Search Results - University of Tennessee Press

utpress.org

Civil War Flags of Tennessee | Part 1: A Brief History of Military Flags

This is the first in a three-part blog series curated by Richard White about the Museum's new book, Civil War Flags of Tennessee (The University of Tennessee Press).by Richard WhiteRecently released by University of Tennessee Press, Civil War Flags of Tennessee is a monumental work, and a...

tnmuseum.org

The flag you have posted is eccentric in a number of ways. The pattern of the 11 stars in the canton is irregular.

The double sided design, "Cherokee Dragoons" & motto are typical of the early war muster period. Flags from local units that were absorbed into organized regiments were sent home. Thus the pristine condition.

As you see in the links to state collections, flags subject to wind, weather, UV from sunlight & rough handling deteriorate quickly. The reasons the examples in the collections are relatively intact is an ironic one.

Many of the flags in the collections were captured. Captured flags were collected by the War Department or State governments. As part of a reconciliation policy in the early 20th Century, the well preserved war trophies became the core of state museum collections.

Because the early muster period flags like the posted example were put away in a cedar chest, etc, they are relatively rare. The existing examples often have wonderfully inventive designs & mottos.

 

[G Low]

This flag looks like it was folded up and a bullet went thru it . Sadly my ancestor did not return home. His two brothers did return, they were all from Cherokee county Ga.

 

[G Low]

This is my ggg grandfather and his regimental flag and a little history.

 

[G Low]

Don't see many 15 star flags..

 

[RedRover]

Evidently includes all of the States with legal slavery, including Delaware.

Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana,
Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee,
Texas, and Virginia, and the non-seceded Missouri, Kentucky and Delaware.

 

[G Low]

Evidently includes all of the States with legal slavery, including Delaware.

Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana,
Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee,
Texas, and Virginia, and the non-seceded Missouri, Kentucky and Delaware.

Would you put Maryland in the seceded states? I heard they( Yankees) put all the secessionist in jail then wa la no secession.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Would you put Maryland in the seceded states? I heard they( Yankees) put all the secessionist in jail then wa la no secession.

The reason Maryland did not secede is (+/-) the same as the other slave states that stayed loyal.

Link:

Map showing the distribution of the slave population of the southern states of the United States. Compiled from the census of 1860

Scale ca. 1:3,000,000. LC Civil War Maps (2nd ed.), 13.2 "Entered according to Act of Congress, A.D. 1861 by Henry S. Graham." "Sold for the benefit of the sick and wounded soldiers of the U.S. Army." "Census Office, Department of the Interior, Washington, Sept. 9th, 1861. After a careful...

www.loc.gov

On this 1860 slave population map you will notice that in the border states that the slave population was highly concentrated. The large blank areas hardly had any enslaved population at all. There simply was not a large enough slaveholding population to vote for secession.

That was certainly the case in Maryland.

Link:

Civil War Trail History Map Guides

At the Crossroads of Conflict In the spring of 1861, as the Civil War broke out and divided the nation, Maryland braced itself for battle. Living near the Potomac River, the conflict’s pivotal border between North an [...]

www.visitmaryland.org

 

[G Low]

That's an interesting and informative slave map. Also interesting how it came about. My ggg grandfather had a plantation that covered four counties in Georgia. Walton , Newton, Morgan and Jasper. I see Morgan was dark. And Putnam county too. That's where Joel Chandler Harris is from . (Uncle Remus)

 

[Rhea Cole]

That's an interesting and informative slave map. Also interesting how it came about. My ggg grandfather had a plantation that covered four counties in Georgia. Walton , Newton, Morgan and Jasper. I see Morgan was dark. And Putnam county too. That's where Joel Chandler Harris is from . (Uncle Remus)

The census map makes a lot of things.clear. With reason, the entire swath of the Appalachian Mountains was never fully under CSA control.

You can google the maps of individual states. The returns are county by county. That granular detail can be especially enlightening.

 

[RedRover]

Would you put Maryland in the seceded states? I heard they( Yankees) put all the secessionist in jail then wa la no secession.

No. Good catch. Revised below.

Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana,
Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee,
Texas, and Virginia, and the non-seceded Missouri, Kentucky and Delaware And Maryland.

 

[G Low]

A lot of people don't realize that the southerners wanted to count all slaves in the census but northerners would only allow 2/3 credit for every one slave.

 

[G Low]

A lot of people don't realize that the southerners wanted to count all slaves in the census but northerners would only allow 2/3 credit for every one slave. I had an uncle who was from Rabun County who had slaves he signed the Georgia ordinance of secession. (Sam Beck) he farmed warwoman creek valley between Clayton Ga. And South Carolina.

 

[G Low]

This may be another reason why Maryland didn't secede.

 

[G Low]

Here are more Ga. regimental flags 10th reg. Company E,I and 11th reg Company A

 

[G Low]

Here are more Ga. regimental flags 10th reg. Company E,I and 11th reg Company A

View attachment 526338

View attachment 526339

View attachment 526340

Note the Fayette Rifle Grays flag with 8 stars ️

 

[Rhea Cole]

A lot of people don't realize that the southerners wanted to count all slaves in the census but northerners would only allow 2/3 credit for every one slave.

Are you referring to the 3/5ths rule for representation in the Constitution?

Link:

Map showing the distribution of the slave population of the southern states of the United States. Compiled from the census of 1860

Scale ca. 1:3,000,000. LC Civil War Maps (2nd ed.), 13.2 "Entered according to Act of Congress, A.D. 1861 by Henry S. Graham." "Sold for the benefit of the sick and wounded soldiers of the U.S. Army." "Census Office, Department of the Interior, Washington, Sept. 9th, 1861. After a careful...

www.loc.gov

As can be seen in this county by county slave census, every slave was counted.

 

[G Low]

Are you referring to the 3/5ths rule for representation in the Constitution?

Link:

Map showing the distribution of the slave population of the southern states of the United States. Compiled from the census of 1860

Scale ca. 1:3,000,000. LC Civil War Maps (2nd ed.), 13.2 "Entered according to Act of Congress, A.D. 1861 by Henry S. Graham." "Sold for the benefit of the sick and wounded soldiers of the U.S. Army." "Census Office, Department of the Interior, Washington, Sept. 9th, 1861. After a careful...

www.loc.gov

As can be seen in this county by county slave census, every slave was counted.

Yes my mistake

 

[Rhea Cole]

Yes my mistake

No problem.