What is this? Real or Fake?

[Reconstructed Rebel]

Knowing nothing about cannon, I am curious to know - is this real or fake?

 

[Ole Miss]

That would a @redbob or @ucvrelics question. I let them answer the easy questions
Regards
David

 

[Kurt G]

Knowing nothing about cannon, I am curious to know - is this real or fake?


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Real . it appears to be a 24 pounder flank howitzer .I've found 2 of these in cemeteries in northern Michigan.

 

[Kurt G]

Here is one from Northport , Michigan.

 

[Kurt G]

This one is from East Jordan , Mi.

 

[Reconstructed Rebel]

Thank you @Kurt G !
I have to admit I was expecting it to be fake. Don't quite see how it could be fired but will google 24 pounder flank howitzer

 

[Kurt G]

Thank you @Kurt G !
I have to admit I was expecting it to be fake. Don't quite see how it could be fired but will google 24 pounder flank howitzer

You're welcome . I dug into this a while ago because they didn't look familiar to me . I believe Cyrus Allen was a maker of at least some of these .

 

[John Hartwell]

Thank you @Kurt G !
I have to admit I was expecting it to be fake. Don't quite see how it could be fired but will google 24 pounder flank howitzer

It is, of course, mounted just for display, and would never be fired from such a 'carriage.'

 

[Seduzal]

Paging @redbob @ucvrelics can you give some more information on these canons?

 

[Reconstructed Rebel]

From what I've read so far about the limited use of these cannon, I'm wondering if it could have been used at Camp Douglas POW camp in Chicago or if Illinois or Chicago had any defenses on Lake Michigan during the war. Going down the rabbit hole of speculation which is always fun and sometimes rewarding....

 

[James N.]

Thank you @Kurt G !
I have to admit I was expecting it to be fake. Don't quite see how it could be fired but will google 24 pounder flank howitzer

It is, of course, mounted just for display, and would never be fired from such a 'carriage.'

It also appears to have been mounted UPSIDE DOWN - note there appears to be NO touchhole or vent! This is not unknown in display guns: for example, we discovered the huge 13' mortar at Grand Gulf State Park in Mississippi is similarly displayed upside down on a "carriage" or mount that is nothing like it would've been mounted on originally.

From what I've read so far about the limited use of these cannon, I'm wondering if it could have been used at Camp Douglas POW camp in Chicago or if Illinois or Chicago had any defenses on Lake Michigan during the war. Going down the rabbit hole of speculation which is always fun and sometimes rewarding....

Unlikely, because it was rare for pieces of ordnance to simply be left in place after the government abandoned the garrisons or positions. It was usual for them to be removed and placed in storage, though there WERE exceptions, as in the case of several 100-pounder Parrotts that were sealed up within Fort Sumter's lower casemates. Around the turn of the Twentieth Century after it was obvious that pieces like these were obsolete they were offered to communities for service in memorials, monuments, and cemeteries across the nation, no doubt how these got to where they are today.

 

[Kurt G]

It also appears to have been mounted UPSIDE DOWN - note there appears to be NO touchhole or vent! This is not unknown in display guns: for example, we discovered the huge 13' mortar at Grand Gulf State Park in Mississippi is similarly displayed upside down on a "carriage" or mount that is nothing like it would've been mounted on originally.


Unlikely, because it was rare for pieces of ordnance to simply be left in place after the government abandoned the garrisons or positions. It was usual for them to be removed and placed in storage, though there WERE exceptions, as in the case of several 100-pounder Parrotts that were sealed up within Fort Sumter's lower casemates. Around the turn of the Twentieth Century after it was obvious that pieces like these were obsolete they were offered to communities for service in memorials, monuments, and cemeteries across the nation, no doubt how these got to where they are today.

The one from Northport is also mounted upside down . I wondered if they may have done this to prevent some one from trying to fire it .

 

[James N.]

The one from Northport is also mounted upside down . I wondered if they may have done this to prevent some one from trying to fire it .

Or possibly merely to keep rain water out of the barrel on these iron guns.

 

[Kurt G]

Or possibly merely to keep rain water out of the barrel on these iron guns.

I thought of that as well but the angel that some are mounted would allow for rain to enter the barrel . I think you are most likely correct .

 

[USS ALASKA]

The one from Northport is also mounted upside down . I wondered if they may have done this to prevent some one from trying to fire it .

Which comes with its own issues...

Remembering the time when a guy freed stuck cannonballs from the town cannon and things went ... wrong
Updated Sep 15; Posted Sep 15
By Johnathan Croyle

A small taste of the Civil War came to Waterloo, N.Y. on Sept. 12, 1923, 58 years after the war ended

Residents of the Seneca County village, best known for being the birthplace of Memorial Day, must have been surprised when three cannon balls were fired from a cannon from Lafayette Park while people and schoolchildren walked home for lunch.

The park had recently been struck by vandals, believed to be "mischievous boys," who had taken the eight-pound cannon balls from a pyramid-shaped display and dropped them down the muzzle of the cannon nearby.

Park commissioners tried to remove them and successfully got all but three out of the cannon.

That is when Charles Genung, who lived next door to the park, decided to try to help.

Armed with two ounces of gunpowder and a fuse from a firecracker, Genung thought he could fire the balls out, figuring that the small amount of powder would prevent the balls from traveling too far.

The Medina Daily Journal wrote that the powder Genung used should "have been only sufficient to dislodge the balls."

Unfortunately, Genung was unaware of the extra powder already inside of the cannon, left over from a previous firing. Or he may have used more gunpowder than he figured.

Instead of merely dislodging the three cannon balls, they were sent "soaring over the trees."

(Thankfully the cannon was displayed with its muzzle pointed up rather than parallel to the ground which would have sent the balls screaming into a street of pedestrians.)

One ball clipped large limbs from trees and landed in the yard of Charles Terwilliger. Another traveled 500 feet and crashed through the second story of the Waterloo Hotel.

The third plowed into the west side of Genung's home, cut through one of the upper rooms and lodged inside a front wall.

No one was injured in the so-called "Bombardment of Waterloo," though Mr. Genung may have been a bit embarrassed after the story was picked by newspapers across New York State.

"Fools Not All Dead Yet" was the front-page headline of the Medina paper.

Full article with pics can be found here - https://www.syracuse.com/vintage/20...l_war_cannon_fire_skakes_village_in_1923.html

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[redbob]

Without a doubt, the information on a "Flank" howitzer has proven to be an elusive beast, however this is what I have found :
First off a "Flank" howitzer is an American outgrowth of the British custom of using carronades to protect casements in fixed fortifications.
The first American order (of three) for Flank howitzer(s) was placed with Cyrus Alger on 24 April 1845 for 100 24 pound iron field howitzers for flank defense.
By 28 July 1849, 300 cast iron flank howitzers had been manufactured by Alger (CA& Co.-Photo #8) and accepted by the US Government.
577 Flank Howitzers were eventually made by seven different manufacturers including the Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond.
Of these 577 manufactured, 258 survive.
A gunner and two cannoneers were needed to man the piece and with a load of 2 pounds of powder, they fired a 21 pound canister or a 17 pound shell containing a 12 oz. bursting charge.
The tube weight averaged 1,400 pounds.
This information came from the book The Big Guns by Olmstead, Stark and Tucker.

 

[redbob]

That would a @redbob or @ucvrelics question. I let them answer the easy questions
Regards
David

And this proved to be a far from easy question to answer.

 

[Ole Miss]

Should have let me know y'all were having difficulties and I would have shared the answer with both of you. Knowledge is too precious not to share.
Regards
David

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I have to admit I was expecting it to be fake.

Same here, but I was waiting for the experts to reply.

As usual, they did not disappoint.

a "Flank" howitzer is an American outgrowth of the British custom of using carronades

That explains much.

It does resemble a carronade more than a traditional howitzer of that era.

 

[redbob]

Should have let me know y'all were having difficulties and I would have shared the answer with both of you. Knowledge is too precious not to share.
Regards
David

What can I say except that you are Mr. Nice Guy.