Real Confederate Sword?

[Jaycalgary]

[/ATTACH] I bought a confederate sword at a pawn shop here in Canada today. Here is the pictures. Can you tell me anything about it and maybe what it's value would be?

 

[Bob Owen]

It appears to be a Confederate Field Officer's sword. The hilt appears correct, but the etching on the blade is suspect. The scabbard looks good. I'll research a little more on this one. Selling price can also be an indicator.

 

[Jaycalgary]

Thanks for the reply. I have been looking it up and I think it is a Boyle and Gamble staff sword. If it is real I did very very well. It was sold as is as a broken scabbard sword. The leather is in bad shape. I saw the "CS" and asked the pawn guy if he knew what it stood for. He didn't I said " Colonel Sanders" but we are in Canada. Here is some more pics if anyone is interested in seeing.

 

[ole]

Its value is whatever someone is willing to pay you for it. Meanwhile, although it looks a bit rough, you have a nice wall hanger. Keep in mind that about 80 percent of Confederate relics are fakes.

 

[Jaycalgary]

Ya I am pretty happy with it and a good history lesson too. Not looking to sell anyway but I can't spot any difference between mine and the pictures that I have seen of real ones so far. I am curious to know why the blade is so dull. At first when I saw it I though it was ground down just to make it safe as a wall hanger. Kind of thinking only from the tip a little ways down was ever sharpened. There are dings in the blade though

 

[ole]

Ya I am pretty happy with it and a good history lesson too. Not looking to sell anyway but I can't spot any difference between mine and the pictures that I have seen of real ones so far. I am curious to know why the blade is so dull. At first when I saw it I though it was ground down just to make it safe as a wall hanger. Kind of thinking only from the tip a little ways down was ever sharpened. There are dings in the blade though

Swords did not come from the factory sharpened. You get one with an edge and someone has played with it.

It is said that Forrest had his sharpened. Might be mythology; might not. Swords were for poking, not slashing.

 

[Bmac48]

[/ATTACH] I bought a confederate sword at a pawn shop here in Canada today. Here is the pictures. Can you tell me anything about it and maybe what it's value would be?View attachment 21053 View attachment 21054 View attachment 21055

I think it's a modern reproduction, made sometime during the past 25-30 years. If you look at the blade, there are embossed Confederate flags and CSA shields. How many sword manufacturers did that during the Civil War?

 

[Republican Blues]

Boyle and Gambe showing the acid etched blade

http://www.oldsouthantiques.com/os1949p1.htm

 

[Jaycalgary]

"If you look at the blade, there are embossed Confederate flags and CSA shields."
I think they just might look embossed in the picture. There are some lines scratched in places on the etchings that give it the look of having some depth but everything else seems the same depth.

 

[James N.]

Much about this looks really good, and IF it is, I suppose you know you have a sword worth in the thousands, maybe tens of thousands. This is a desirable enough piece that a professional "in person" appraisal is necessary either for insurance purposes or potential sales. Ole is right about factory swords and sabers NOT being sharpened - and DON'T do it because you think it "should" be; that would devalue it. As for the etching, that's an especial reason for a professional appraisal because photos aren't likely to do it justice, however good. Even if the etching turns out to be fake that doesn't necessarally make the sword fake also; in the 1950's shysters would sometimes "improve" otherwise genuine Confederate swords in this way, turning a then $200 - 300 sword into a $1000 sword through such fakery.

 

[Bob Owen]

If proven authentic to include the etching, currently it could bring $3000 to $6000 if the right buyer is contacted. When I was big in collecting CSA swords I saw that type of etching and James N is correct. This type was added during the 1960's to enhance the sale of a Confederate sword. Of all the original Boyle and Gamble swords that I have owned over the years, they did not have that style of etching. I believe that is an original with added etching to one that had a plain blade or one that the original etching has worn off.

 

[James N.]

If proven authentic to include the etching, currently it could bring $3000 to $6000 if the right buyer is contacted. When I was big in collecting CSA swords I saw that type of etching and James N is correct. This type was added during the 1960's to enhance the sale of a Confederate sword. Of all the original Boyle and Gamble swords that I have owned over the years, they did not have that style of etching. I believe that is an original with added etching to one that had a plain blade or one that the original etching has worn off.

Bob, like myself, youve been away from this too long! Only a few years ago I consigned a dozen of my swords to Heritage Auction Galleries in Dallas. My unremarkable unetched James Conning, missing the middle scabbard mount and with an upper mount replaced with one from a Boyle and Gamble, went for the opening bid of $7000 with no additional bidding. If the economy had been better, it could easliy have brought $10 - 12,000. It had an excellent provinence and was pictured in William Albaugh's Photographic Supplement of Confederate Swords. A genuine, untouched etched Boyle and Gamble should easily bring 2 - 4 times the amount mine realized in a more stable economy.

 

[Bob Owen]

I'm not really out of the loop as I continue to price swords on the current market. Auctions always bring up or down unrealistic prices but some of my trusted dealers in such tell me that the retail sales on these are not bringing prices that they expect. A James Conning sword is always bringing higher prices than a Boyle and Gamble. I can pick up a descent one in the price range that I quoted today with no problem. The biggest problem with swords today is that our economy is in the toilet.

 

[Bob Owen]

I'm currently in the market for an authentic Kenansville cavalry saber due to the low prices on the current market.

 

[JerryB8]

There is one currently on Ebay But we both know its probably fake. Although worth a look.

 

[Cumpston1862]

If money is not a huge concern and you are comfortable spending $ 1000.00 on a sword hoping its real all the power to you. I have been burned before and hedge my bets on the cautionary side.

What was it President Reagan would say..."Trust and than verify."

 

[James N.]

I think it's a modern reproduction, made sometime during the past 25-30 years. If you look at the blade, there are embossed Confederate flags and CSA shields. How many sword manufacturers did that during the Civil War?

The important point is they did and Boyle and Gamble being located in Richmond where the market was strong was one of them! It's good to keep in mind that, unlike enlisted men's cavalry and artillery sabers that were produced under government contracts in both the Confederacy and Union, officers had to purchase their own, so marketing ploys like this "extra embellishment" were used as selling points by military outfitters and the firms that supplied them. As strange as this might look to you, it looks exactly like photographs on unquestionably authentic examples pictured in Albaugh. That's why I say a hands-on appraisal by someone who knows more about them would actually be a good investment.

 

[Bmac48]

The important point is they did and Boyle and Gamble being located in Richmond where the market was strong was one of them! It's good to keep in mind that, unlike enlisted men's cavalry and artillery sabers that were produced under government contracts in both the Confederacy and Union, officers had to purchase their own, so marketing ploys like this "extra embellishment" were used as selling points by military outfitters and the firms that supplied them. As strange as this might look to you, it looks exactly like photographs on unquestionably authentic examples pictured in Albaugh. That's why I say a hands-on appraisal by someone who knows more about them would actually be a good investment.

Then I stand corrected

 

[Cumpston1862]

The important point is they did and Boyle and Gamble being located in Richmond where the market was strong was one of them! It's good to keep in mind that, unlike enlisted men's cavalry and artillery sabers that were produced under government contracts in both the Confederacy and Union, officers had to purchase their own, so marketing ploys like this "extra embellishment" were used as selling points by military outfitters and the firms that supplied them. As strange as this might look to you, it looks exactly like photographs on unquestionably authentic examples pictured in Albaugh. That's why I say a hands-on appraisal by someone who knows more about them would actually be a good investment.

James-

Do you know of a link with some good pictures we could all use for comparison?

 

[James N.]

James-

Do you know of a link with some good pictures we could all use for comparison?

Unfortunately, no. I'm from the Dark Ages BI ( Before Internet ) and have gotten most of my information from books. The aforementioned William Albaugh was the authority on Confederate weapons in the 1950's and 60's when I first started learning about them. His Photographic Supplement of Confederate Swords was the illustrated volume which accompanied an earlier book illustrated only with line drawings; for the time it was the prime source on Confederate edged weapons. I feel sure others have expanded on his work since, especially in our digital age; unfortunately I don't know anything about them. One good source, especially for detailed photographs, would likely be in the online archives of Heritage Auction Galleries, through which I sold some of my collection. I think even though auctions end they maintain the items in their database. Other reliable dealers like Larry Hicklen and others named in other posts would probably be good as well.