Question about ordering records on a soldier

[Keiri]

Hi folks, I'd like to request some information from anyone who has done it about requesting information on a Union soldier from the US Archives or NARA. I have access to Fold3 and have their index card. He survived the war. Did you get the pension file or the service file or both? What did the service file contain? Was it simply a summary of the muster rolls? This person had a field order from Halleck assigning him to Cairo for some reason in the third year of the war, and I'd like to see if it contains a copy of the order.

How did you go about doing it? Was there a form? How easy was it? Thanks so much in advance.

 

[Frederick14Va]

What may be contained in a given CMSR service record may vary... usually contains various enlistment, muster rolls, payment vouchers, mention of clothing issue receipts... hospital registry listings if he was admitted anywhere etc.... and sometimes various secondary documents or orders that he may have signed for.... Some quite extensive... others not so much....

NARA will commonly only send an assortment of article copies to provide a simple confirmed evidence of enlistment... which is what most are after... If its a bigger file they frequently will not copy everything contained within... just parts... unless you ask otherwise... In the past I would always put "Please send all copies"... on the forms... (NATF form 86)

Pension records (if the subject had one)... frequently will have various other information that might not be present in his CMSR... affidavit documents to detail and prove a disability cause if there was one... (NATF form 85) These are usually requested separately since they are not combined with the service record files...

You can order hard copies of the necessary forms, and/or access downloadable copies here:
https://www.archives.gov/forms/

 

[Keiri]

Excellent, thank you very much. By the way who is your avatar? He's quite handsome.

 

[IslayMalt]

That's interesting ... I've found additional records on Fold3, but have been told elsewhere that when it's just an index card then that's all there is. Now I have to go back and find everything again.

 

[mcfb50]

If it's genealogical info that you're after, the pension file should be more helpful. Even for information beyond just marriage records and birth dates of children. I've found affidavits from family members that confirmed relationships and gave specifics on the financial information of the family and/or details about deaths. I just went back through a file a second time and discovered the middle initial of an individual with a common (thus harder to research name) so that was a big bonus.

Also the pension file often contains more details about military service, such as in the form of affidavits from fellow soldiers explaining how the individual was wounded or killed.

There's a really neat video about the digitization process which gives a glimpse of the sorts of info that might be found in the full pension file.

 

[IslayMalt]

Yes, pension information has been helpful, for what I've found. Unfortunately one ancestor had his widow's pension 'taken' by someone other than his wife. It was pretty obvious given she would have been about 13, and, they married in Philly shortly (< 1month) after he re-enlisted in VA. But maybe I've been on a completely wrong track. One other seems to match up completely; soldier and wife and birth, but his death year is off some from the pension application. So that may be another dead end.

Fold3 seems to lack quite a bit, given it's supposed to have a lot of military records. In some cases I've found more just using google ... the god of all things that matter.

 

[Keiri]

Actually I'm mostly interested as to why a soldier was taken from the field and stationed in Cairo for the last year of the war. Given that he was insane after the war and committed to an asylum, I was wondering if there was anything in either file...

 

[mcfb50]

Yes, pension information has been helpful, for what I've found. Unfortunately one ancestor had his widow's pension 'taken' by someone other than his wife. It was pretty obvious given she would have been about 13, and, they married in Philly shortly (< 1month) after he re-enlisted in VA. But maybe I've been on a completely wrong track. One other seems to match up completely; soldier and wife and birth, but his death year is off some from the pension application. So that may be another dead end.

Fold3 seems to lack quite a bit, given it's supposed to have a lot of military records. In some cases I've found more just using google ... the god of all things that matter.

If it's Erastus Smart, I just peeked at the pension file on Fold3. Have you ordered the actual file or just checked it at Fold3? What's there doesn't look complete. If it paid out a pension to a widow at all, there should be some details, including when payments stopped, the widow's date of death or remarriage, etc.

Almighty Google (if I'm reading it right) is showing that the 82nd's winter quarters Dec 1863 were established at Brandy Station, and about half its members reenlisted and then went home on veteran's furlough. So it's possible he reenlisted there, then went home and married the girl. She was young, but I've run into a few 13 and 14 year old brides who became war widows before.

Familysearch is showing a marriage date for Erastus Smart to Ella Elizabeth Scout January 18, 1864 in Philadelphia. This matches up with the widow with no minor children who claimed the pension.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V26R-HWL

Also at Familysearch is a record showing a baby girl--Emeline H.F. Smart--and listing father Erastus Smart and mother Sarah on January 17, 1864 in Philadelphia. Does this birth info fit the Emma F who was trying to claim the pension late in life?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V1MQ-TGC

If you haven't already it might be good to check the original records instead of just looking at the transcription. You might find some clues there to help sort this out.

 

[Frederick14Va]

That's interesting ... I've found additional records on Fold3, but have been told elsewhere that when it's just an index card then that's all there is. Now I have to go back and find everything again.

The files on Fold3 are constantly evolving and expanding as they digitize and add in more files... it is not nor implied to be a completed task. They started with the Confederate files, and USCT's which at that time appeared to have the most interest in at the time... For whatever reasons... not to go into it here... majority of folks seeking ancestral military data tend to be folks seeking info on Confederates... so that's what they appeared to have focused on first... Federal files are huge and will take considerable time to digitize... currently just the index cards are posted for most Union units....

Ive always made use of a host of different sources and angles collectively to harvest data.... no one single source usually has all the pieces of the puzzles frequently encountered...

 

[Frederick14Va]

Excellent, thank you very much. By the way who is your avatar? He's quite handsome.

Avatar is an image of an ancestor that served in the war... He was wounded three times. He and four other brothers survived... yet he had 6 brothers who did not... We have an uncanny resemblance to each other... so much that a copy of the image sits on my mantle... and people will frequently ask "When did you have this one taken".... they finding it difficult to believe that the image isnt actually me... but of an ancestor...

 

[IslayMalt]

If it's Erastus Smart, I just peeked at the pension file on Fold3. Have you ordered the actual file or just checked it at Fold3? What's there doesn't look complete. If it paid out a pension to a widow at all, there should be some details, including when payments stopped, the widow's date of death or remarriage, etc.

Almighty Google (if I'm reading it right) is showing that the 82nd's winter quarters Dec 1863 were established at Brandy Station, and about half its members reenlisted and then went home on veteran's furlough. So it's possible he reenlisted there, then went home and married the girl. She was young, but I've run into a few 13 and 14 year old brides who became war widows before.

Familysearch is showing a marriage date for Erastus Smart to Ella Elizabeth Scout January 18, 1864 in Philadelphia. This matches up with the widow with no minor children who claimed the pension.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V26R-HWL

Also at Familysearch is a record showing a baby girl--Emeline H.F. Smart--and listing father Erastus Smart and mother Sarah on January 17, 1864 in Philadelphia. Does this birth info fit the Emma F who was trying to claim the pension late in life?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V1MQ-TGC

If you haven't already it might be good to check the original records instead of just looking at the transcription. You might find some clues there to help sort this out.

Yes Erastus is the person I was referring to as per the pension. His daughter Emma did apply and was turned down. Perhaps he divorced the mother of Emma sometime between '61 and '62? She and Emma both appear in Maryland on the next census; unmarried. I was looking at an image of the pension application at the time. So I don't know the true story. Still, I'm pretty sure he's the correct person. Thank you for the information

 

[IslayMalt]

The files on Fold3 are constantly evolving and expanding as they digitize and add in more files... it is not nor implied to be a completed task. They started with the Confederate files, and USCT's which at that time appeared to have the most interest in at the time... For whatever reasons... not to go into it here... majority of folks seeking ancestral military data tend to be folks seeking info on Confederates... so that's what they appeared to have focused on first... Federal files are huge and will take considerable time to digitize... currently just the index cards are posted for most Union units....

Ive always made use of a host of different sources and angles collectively to harvest data.... no one single source usually has all the pieces of the puzzles frequently encountered...

I can understand why Fold3 started with Confederate records. Just searching for the few files that I wanted was extremely difficult anywhere else. The Union records appear to be in much better shape of course.

Still haven't been able to find a marriage record for Erastus Smart and Ella 'Scout', sometime in January '64.

Were re-enlistment dates commonly recorded as mustered, or even enlistment, dates? I'm just wondering because I've seen Erastus Smart as being mustered into the 31st PA (later re-named the 82nd), in '61. But also have seen records showing him as enlisting, and also re-enlisting, in '63. Some documents from the same source seem to vary.

I apologize for the numerous questions, but I just stumbled across this forum and it's allowed me to seriously restart my entire search.

 

[Greg Taylor]

Hi folks, I'd like to request some information from anyone who has done it about requesting information on a Union soldier from the US Archives or NARA. I have access to Fold3 and have their index card. He survived the war. Did you get the pension file or the service file or both? What did the service file contain? Was it simply a summary of the muster rolls? This person had a field order from Halleck assigning him to Cairo for some reason in the third year of the war, and I'd like to see if it contains a copy of the order.

How did you go about doing it? Was there a form? How easy was it? Thanks so much in advance.

By all means if you haven't yet done so order the complete pension file. I was utterly amazed at what was in my ancestor's file.

 

[IslayMalt]

Yes I'll start ordering complete files. My best hope is for my ancestor that served in the 9th PA Cav. He served the entire war. But I don't know if he applied for a pension.

Do the service and pension records require different requests? It seems that everything would be linked, but I may be thinking present time.

 

[IslayMalt]

If it's Erastus Smart, I just peeked at the pension file on Fold3. Have you ordered the actual file or just checked it at Fold3? What's there doesn't look complete. If it paid out a pension to a widow at all, there should be some details, including when payments stopped, the widow's date of death or remarriage, etc.

Almighty Google (if I'm reading it right) is showing that the 82nd's winter quarters Dec 1863 were established at Brandy Station, and about half its members reenlisted and then went home on veteran's furlough. So it's possible he reenlisted there, then went home and married the girl. She was young, but I've run into a few 13 and 14 year old brides who became war widows before.

Familysearch is showing a marriage date for Erastus Smart to Ella Elizabeth Scout January 18, 1864 in Philadelphia. This matches up with the widow with no minor children who claimed the pension.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V26R-HWL

Also at Familysearch is a record showing a baby girl--Emeline H.F. Smart--and listing father Erastus Smart and mother Sarah on January 17, 1864 in Philadelphia. Does this birth info fit the Emma F who was trying to claim the pension late in life?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V1MQ-TGC

If you haven't already it might be good to check the original records instead of just looking at the transcription. You might find some clues there to help sort this out.

I was finally able to find a marriage certificate in MD for Sarah Cline Smart and Ephraim Zepp; She listed herself as a widow. I'm guessing of Erastus, which would be strange. He was 60, her 27. Nice catch for an old farmer .....

No online records exist for Ella and Erastus, so I'll have to contact someone in Philly to research if it's on file anywhere.

 

[rbasin]

I simply emailed the National Archives. I just wanted to know how to request info. Below is the email they sent back:


Dear Mr. Basin:


This is in reply to your recent inquiry which we received on July 29, 2014 concerning the military service records and court martial case file of Michael Fuery.


The War Department did not issue military service records for the United States Regular Army. We looked at the US Army enlistment papers, but were unable to locate one for Michael Fuery. If you have not already done so, we suggest you visit www.ancestry.com to research the registers of enlistment in the US Army that can be found there. The registers are more complete than the records at the National Archives.


We were able to locate Michael Fuery's case file, CC-541, as located in Record Group 153, Records of the Office of the Judge Advocate General (Army). Please reply back with your mailing address so we can send you a complimentary copy.


Sincerely,

Kathleen Janota

Archives 1 Reference Section (RDT1R)

National Archives and Records Administration

Washington, D.C.

 

[mcfb50]

Avatar is an image of an ancestor that served in the war... He was wounded three times. He and four other brothers survived... yet he had 6 brothers who did not... We have an uncanny resemblance to each other... so much that a copy of the image sits on my mantle... and people will frequently ask "When did you have this one taken".... they finding it difficult to believe that the image isnt actually me... but of an ancestor...

That would definitely be uncanny! Neither my maternal or paternal sides passed down strong family resemblances in recent generations, but a few years ago I found a picture of my husband's GG-grandmother. It was like staring into the face of my father-in-law.

 

[BlueGrayBlood]

Actually I'm mostly interested as to why a soldier was taken from the field and stationed in Cairo for the last year of the war. Given that he was insane after the war and committed to an asylum, I was wondering if there was anything in either file...

Cairo and the Camp at Fort Defiance had a hospital run by the Sisters of the Holy Cross
http://www.cscsisters.org/aboutus/media/features/Pages/CivilWar.aspx

maybe he was transferred there
Harpers Weekly, June 1, 1861 page 350 (see link) has A good diagram and mention of the hospital set up by Dr. Sim, Brigade Surgeon and his assistant Dr. Haven (great name for a doctor) from Chicago.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war/1861/june/camp-defiance-cairo.htm

Good luck on finding out, it is the search that is rewarding!

I don't have Fold3 but am going to order from NARA, is there any way to find out beforehand if a pension was issued?

This Union vet resigned Aug 14, 1863 after Vicksburg for illness ( I think he went to Cairo, with several steamboats full of sick and wounded, that day headed to the Cairo hospital) subsequently died 1869, leaving widow and three minor children but don't know of a pension. Thanks

 

[BlueGrayBlood]

I simply emailed the National Archives. I just wanted to know how to request info. Below is the email they sent back:


Dear Mr. Basin:


This is in reply to your recent inquiry which we received on July 29, 2014 concerning the military service records and court martial case file of Michael Fuery.

The War Department did not issue military service records for the United States Regular Army. We looked at the US Army enlistment papers, but were unable to locate one for Michael Fuery. If you have not already done so, we suggest you visit www.ancestry.com to research the registers of enlistment in the US Army that can be found there. The registers are more complete than the records at the National Archives.

We were able to locate Michael Fuery's case file, CC-541, as located in Record Group 153, Records of the Office of the Judge Advocate General (Army). Please reply back with your mailing address so we can send you a complimentary copy.

Sincerely,
Kathleen Janota
Archives 1 Reference Section (RDT1R)
National Archives and Records Administration
Washington, D.C.

Amazing that Ancestry would be more complete for US Regular Army

What email address did you use to contact NARA ?

 

[BlueGrayBlood]

By all means if you haven't yet done so order the complete pension file. I was utterly amazed at what was in my ancestor's file.

Did you know before ordering if a pension had been applied for?