Quantrill. Good soldier?

Having one side of my family from Missouri, I can say that when I try to get information about my family during the war .
The elders will say nothing and except that we had family members who fought, there is also the wink wink hint hint you get from family members.. Also the fight in Mo. and Ka. is a whole sheep of a different color. If your family didn't come from there you might not understand what went on.
Pick up these small small quick reads:
Black Flag Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865 By Thomas Goodrich
Confederate Military History of Missouri By John C. Moore
Also try History of Missouri volume II 1820-1860 By Perry McCandless , To see how and where Missouri got to this point in history.
 
So, WHICH dictionary did you use? And what year did it come out?

Kevin Dally
Quantrill.jpg
 
Well, I suppose the real question is not whether he was a soldier or something else, but was he effective? What did he accomplish? Did he help his cause? Were his tactics good, his strategy sound - did he even have one? What did Price and others really think of him and his boys? I know many commanders of the regular army held their noses and used these units, but sure didn't want to. So, Quantrill might come and go on regular army rosters, maybe be listed as an officer, maybe not.
 
One of the most interesting ways to study Quantrill is to read the memoirs of his men. When T. J. Stiles quotes Quantrill at Lawrence as saying: "Kill and you will make no mistake", he is really quoting William Elsey Connelley, who in turn is quoting William Gregg. Gregg wrote his very interesting manuscript at the request of Connelley. He very successfully fought a rear guard delaying action as the guerrillas retreated from Lawrence back to Missouri. It seems clear to me that he was disgusted by some of the abuses he witnessed at Lawrence. In any event, he then left Quantrill and went into regular Confederate service with Shelby. You can read a transcript of his manuscript here:

http://penningtons.tripod.com/charleythehorse2665-2.html

John McCorckle was a scout and guerrilla fighter in George Todd's band. He went to Kentucky with Quantrill and eventually surrendered there. His memoir is titled "Three Years With Quantrill". It is flowery at times but not nearly so much as John Newman Edwards's writing. I suspect his recollections were sometimes clouded by his advanced age at the time he dictated the work. I have the edition that was annotated by Albert Castle and he is frequently critical of the dates that McCorckle assigns to events. Nevertheless, McCorckle gives very interesting character studies of several of the boys, including Quantrill. You can download the book in the format of your choice for free here:

https://archive.org/details/threeyearswithqu01mcco

Hamp Watts wrote a brief, excellent memoir of his time in Anderson's band, from 1864 to war's end. It mostly covers Anderson's actions in Howard and Boone Counties in 1864 and 65. It references Quantrill frequently. It's called "Babe of the Company". You can read it in its entirety here:

http://statehistoricalsocietyofmissouri.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/amcw/id/15641

As has been said, Connelley is fascinating, too. He befriended numerous surviving guerrillas in the years after the war. He wrote about them very fair-mindedly. He most likely fabricated most of what he wrote about Quantrill's childhood, but he is able to relate the other boys' eyewitness accounts of Quantrill's wartime actions. I have not seen the Kindle version of the book, but the original is now available in scanned, PDF form. I have said many times that the voluminous footnotes are every bit as interesting as the main text. You can download the book in your choice of formats here:

https://archive.org/details/quantrillborderw00connuoft

There are also accounts drawn from the oral tradition of Bud and Donnie Pence that provide interesting character studies of Quantrill and many of the boys.

Reading these and other accounts, I've gradually come to the conclusion that Quantrill had a strange duality in his character. He was smart, cunning, charismatic and very chivalrous at times. He was cold other times. I believe he lost control of his command because he was not ruthless enough to suit Anderson and Todd. He is usually demonized for the massacre at Lawrence, but I believe Anderson and Todd and some of their minions were more to blame for that raid getting out of control (young boys being killed, etc.)

I think Quantrill was a very good leader. He managed to operate successfully for years in hostile territory. He disrupted troop movements, captured or destroyed enemy supplies, sabotaged bridges and railroads and typically confounded the efforts of militias and regular troops to capture him. He took and paroled captives. He protected a group of civilians at Lawrence. He shot a fellow guerrilla for attempting to steal a horse from a Howard County widow. He was a complex man. He attempted to get a commission from the Confederate government (accounts vary as to his success). He might or might not technically have been a soldier, but I'm sure he considered himself one. He was a classic partisan guerrilla. The more I find to read about him, the more interesting he becomes to me.
 
I would not call him a soldier.
He only held a rank as a irregular and only for about a year.
The CSA goverment withdrew support after he commited warcrimes.
I would call him a terrorist since he deliberately killed civilians and tried to kill "enemy" politicians. And did this to promote a political agenda.

And if we call him a soldier, he was a very bad one.
Lack of discipline, didn't follow even basic rules of war, deserted and acted in a way where his own government didn't want anything to do with him.

But He might have been a good leader of guerrillas and good at smal unit tactics...

W.C. Quantrill held first a commision as a Capt. given to him by Cpl. G, Thompson in the summer of 1862 for assisting in the recuitment drives in Missouri, this commission was approved by Gen.Hindman CG of the trans Miss Dept. In the winter of 62 he went to Richmond and obtained a commision as a Capitan of Partisan Rangers under the Partisan Ranger Act, he was looking for a commssioin as a Colonel,and later claimed to his men that he had recieved that rank.

His Independant Commission stood until April of 64 when the CSA repealed the Partisan Ranger act, but he was not the only one to lose his rank all partisans not joining regular forces were disavowed by the CSA, With the exceptions of Mosbey and McNiell unless they joined the Regular Army.

Did the Raid on Lawerance have something to do with it?Possibly.Did the ivory tower that Davis and Lee stood on have something to do with it?Possibly.But the end of the act did nothing to stop Partisan actions anywhere it simply took the CSA out of the equation in the CSA's mind.

Guerilla war is nasty it doesn't come with uniforns and rules and that was what Missouri was on both sides.

Was WCQ a solider?He was an excellent raider and mounted commander, he was an excellant Partisan leader, but the argument canbe made he had no stake in anything but WCQ.
 
I like what @thomas aagaard said on the matter. Quantrill differed from guys like McNeill and Mosby in that he really didn't hold any kind of standard - military or civil - by which he recruited or operated. He accepted just about anyone into his command so long as they were willing to listen to him, holding little or no respect for protocol, honor, or legitimate purpose to his service. His command - if you could call it that - yielded the likes of 'Bloody Bill,' Frank and Jesse James, etc. His command was more like the Blackbeard of Missouri and Kansas in which he basically did as he pleased without great concern for whom was victimized while claiming to be committing his acts in the name of the Confederacy.
.He had no stake in the fight in Missouri or for the South it was all about WCQ nothing more .Yes there were bad apples in his command (and he did have one)Frank was orginally in Fernando Scotts band and was a passable soldiere even after joining Quanrill and later Anderson,Jesse was to young to join WCQ.s band by bthe time Jesse appears WCQ was holed up with Kate King in Howard County after he lost his authority.
 
Yes, he was a leader! :smile: I'm sure Booner or Patrick H will be able to give us more about his military talents. One of his problems, I think, was he was pretty young to be leading a tough crew. Think they got away from him more than a few times.
His "Boys" were mostly pretty young and at the time he begin recruiting getting to the CS Armty was tough and WCQ was about it in Quantrill Country.
 
His "Boys" were mostly pretty young and at the time he begin recruiting getting to the CS Armty was tough and WCQ was about it in Quantrill Country.

It seemed that the irregulars almost preferred teenagers and very young men. Mosby was criticized for that and said they were the best soldiers - they would do whatever he said and were too young to be scared. And a lot of these kids were plenty mad, too, many with good reason I think.
 
One of the most interesting ways to study Quantrill is to read the memoirs of his men. When T. J. Stiles quotes Quantrill at Lawrence as saying: "Kill and you will make no mistake", he is really quoting William Elsey Connelley, who in turn is quoting William Gregg. Gregg wrote his very interesting manuscript at the request of Connelley. He very successfully fought a rear guard delaying action as the guerrillas retreated from Lawrence back to Missouri. It seems clear to me that he was disgusted by some of the abuses he witnessed at Lawrence. In any event, he then left Quantrill and went into regular Confederate service with Shelby. You can read a transcript of his manuscript here:

http://penningtons.tripod.com/charleythehorse2665-2.html

John McCorckle was a scout and guerrilla fighter in George Todd's band. He went to Kentucky with Quantrill and eventually surrendered there. His memoir is titled "Three Years With Quantrill". It is flowery at times but not nearly so much as John Newman Edwards's writing. I suspect his recollections were sometimes clouded by his advanced age at the time he dictated the work. I have the edition that was annotated by Albert Castle and he is frequently critical of the dates that McCorckle assigns to events. Nevertheless, McCorckle gives very interesting character studies of several of the boys, including Quantrill. You can download the book in the format of your choice for free here:

https://archive.org/details/threeyearswithqu01mcco

Hamp Watts wrote a brief, excellent memoir of his time in Anderson's band, from 1864 to war's end. It mostly covers Anderson's actions in Howard and Boone Counties in 1864 and 65. It references Quantrill frequently. It's called "Babe of the Company". You can read it in its entirety here:

http://statehistoricalsocietyofmissouri.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/amcw/id/15641

As has been said, Connelley is fascinating, too. He befriended numerous surviving guerrillas in the years after the war. He wrote about them very fair-mindedly. He most likely fabricated most of what he wrote about Quantrill's childhood, but he is able to relate the other boys' eyewitness accounts of Quantrill's wartime actions. I have not seen the Kindle version of the book, but the original is now available in scanned, PDF form. I have said many times that the voluminous footnotes are every bit as interesting as the main text. You can download the book in your choice of formats here:

https://archive.org/details/quantrillborderw00connuoft

There are also accounts drawn from the oral tradition of Bud and Donnie Pence that provide interesting character studies of Quantrill and many of the boys.

Reading these and other accounts, I've gradually come to the conclusion that Quantrill had a strange duality in his character. He was smart, cunning, charismatic and very chivalrous at times. He was cold other times. I believe he lost control of his command because he was not ruthless enough to suit Anderson and Todd. He is usually demonized for the massacre at Lawrence, but I believe Anderson and Todd and some of their minions were more to blame for that raid getting out of control (young boys being killed, etc.)

I think Quantrill was a very good leader. He managed to operate successfully for years in hostile territory. He disrupted troop movements, captured or destroyed enemy supplies, sabotaged bridges and railroads and typically confounded the efforts of militias and regular troops to capture him. He took and paroled captives. He protected a group of civilians at Lawrence. He shot a fellow guerrilla for attempting to steal a horse from a Howard County widow. He was a complex man. He attempted to get a commission from the Confederate government (accounts vary as to his success). He might or might not technically have been a soldier, but I'm sure he considered himself one. He was a classic partisan guerrilla. The more I find to read about him, the more interesting he becomes to me.

Thanks for all the information and links Patrick. I have just downloaded John McCorkles book and I look forward to reading it. Before I read Connelleys book I knew very little about Quantrill other than he was a Confederate guerilla who sacked a Kansas town named Lawrence and the usual stuff about the Youngers and James brothers. As a matter of fact I knew next to nothing about the War in Kansas and Missouri, over the course of reading Connelleys book however I began looking and thinking of it as a truly fascinating part of the War and I want to know a lot more.
 
Is it possible to have a "favorite" guerrilla? Mine is a young man named Riley Crawford. (I'm writing all of this from memory, so DO NOT take is as fact-please, someone correct me if needed). At 14 his mother handed him over to Quantrill and said, "Here. Teach him how to kill Yankees." His father had been killed by Federals while he was plowing his land, I think he had a sister that was killed in the collapsed prison in Kansas City, (the same prison building collapse that killed "Bloody Bill Anderson's sister). So his mother handed him and a couple of his older brothers over to Quantrill, as she had a large family and couldn't take care of them all as in addition to her husband being killed, their farm was burned. I'm not sure if Riley was at Lawrence, (in the movie "Ride with the Devil" he's depicted as being there- but that's Hollywood). By the summer of 1864, Riley is now riding with Anderson, is a favorite of many of the "older guerrillas" and is in central Missouri, was at Fayette (the battle where Frank James said he was "the most afraid"), and at Centraila. (I just realized no one has brought that up- maybe a Lawrence bias?) Anderson is riding South of Boonville, in Cooper County maybe just before he's to meet up with "Pap" Price, when someone take a shot at the bushwhackers and hits young Riley and kills him. I'm not sure Riley has turned 16 yet. Archie Clement, Anderson's chief "scalper and head devil" is inconsulate over Riley's death. It's not known for sure where Riley was buried, as it was against army regulation to bury a guerrilla (Missouri was under martial law at the time). However there's an old cemetery outside of the little town of Bunceton that's rumored to be his resting place, in an unmarked grave.

I find Riley's story so very tragic.
 
Is it possible to have a "favorite" guerrilla? Mine is a young man named Riley Crawford. (I'm writing all of this from memory, so DO NOT take is as fact-please, someone correct me if needed). At 14 his mother handed him over to Quantrill and said, "Here. Teach him how to kill Yankees." His father had been killed by Federals while he was plowing his land, I think he had a sister that was killed in the collapsed prison in Kansas City, (the same prison building collapse that killed "Bloody Bill Anderson's sister). So his mother handed him and a couple of his older brothers over to Quantrill, as she had a large family and couldn't take care of them all as in addition to her husband being killed, their farm was burned. I'm not sure if Riley was at Lawrence, (in the movie "Ride with the Devil" he's depicted as being there- but that's Hollywood). By the summer of 1864, Riley is now riding with Anderson, is a favorite of many of the "older guerrillas" and is in central Missouri, was at Fayette (the battle where Frank James said he was "the most afraid"), and at Centraila. (I just realized no one has brought that up- maybe a Lawrence bias?) Anderson is riding South of Boonville, in Cooper County maybe just before he's to meet up with "Pap" Price, when someone take a shot at the bushwhackers and hits young Riley and kills him. I'm not sure Riley has turned 16 yet. Archie Clement, Anderson's chief "scalper and head devil" is inconsulate over Riley's death. It's not known for sure where Riley was buried, as it was against army regulation to bury a guerrilla (Missouri was under martial law at the time). However there's an old cemetery outside of the little town of Bunceton that's rumored to be his resting place, in an unmarked grave.

I find Riley's story so very tragic.
Booner, your books are packed, but your memory is pretty good! Riley is believed to be buried in the Old Concord Cemetery, which still exists. I'm sure you could have said the cemetery name if you'd had a little more time.
 
The Quantrill raid of Lawrence Kansas where women, men and children were shot and killed and the town burned regardless of age or civilian status is the Civil War equivalent of the Mai Lai massacre in Viet Nam. That's the end of it.
Suzanne,
If any women were murdered at Lawrence, I've never read of it. Young boys, yes. Civilians, yes. Technically, if Quantrill murdered anyone at Lawrence, I've never read of it. I'm not sure he ever fired a shot there. None of that excuses him. He was in command and whether he merely allowed the raid to get out of hand or whether he whipped the boys into a frenzy of excess is beside the point. As leader, he gets to take the blame for it. As I said previously, I have a hunch (only a hunch) that Todd and Anderson and some of their boys were more to blame, but Quantrill was their leader and he is responsible.

Modern commentary edited out by moderator JerseyBart
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It seemed that the irregulars almost preferred teenagers and very young men. Mosby was criticized for that and said they were the best soldiers - they would do whatever he said and were too young to be scared. And a lot of these kids were plenty mad, too, many with good reason I think.
I read in one book that the average age of the Confederate Guerrillas and the Missouri State Militia troops was 19. It was a very physically demanding war.
Leftyhunter
 
Kbear you bring up a very good point. ( I'm on a new to me tablet and haven't figured out how to post quotes)

It's not appropriet for this post, but what about the jayhawker and redlegs out of Kansas---were they any better worse than the Missouri bushwhackers? Sounds like a good topic. I think they've been overlooked
Maybe later this weekend?
 

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