Possible stupid question

[121st PA Vols]

I don't know prevailing thoughts with guides or the NPS today on the validity of the shot, but 40 years ago, DD > LRT was measured at 523 yards by park officials (how?); so I was told by a park historian I knew as an LBG. While we debated the shot, we often came to discuss how poor the visibility must have been in that sector as it seemed so many jumped to the conclusion that it was a shot from DD that killed Gen. Weed and Lt. Hazlett. Our thoughts as guides and students of the battle were that it was a nice story, but an assumption as was done with Gen. Reynolds.
A few points we argued were....
* The collapse of Vincent's right (16th Mi collapse, 44th NY sagging/refusing)
* 48th Ala, 4th Tex maybe even the 5th (getting around Vincent's right) putting shots on the target. Lots of sizeable rocks and boulders in the area, more then than now to my understanding.
* Plum Run Valley had many rocks/boulders where a soldier could hide. Again, the visibility was poor for both 'clear shot selection' and for the shooter going undetected.
* Houck Ridge is quite a platform as well with many boulders. Benning had a lot of people in the area and Slaughter Pen with good sight lines and cover throughout the area.
* In fact, there are boulders, rocks, dips all over the valley floor (Plum Run was essentially a ditch) for ample cover.

That the shot could have been done was never in question with shots out to 1000 yards and more on record. The question for us was always if it did happen.

Fast edit: Rather than mentioning the Slaughter Pen which is essentially the Den, I should have said....farther up BRT's northern slope (facing LRT) after the sharpshooters were cleared and Law made some gains where there are any number of locations for a shooter with elevation and angle. No measurements but it looks to be 100 to 150 -yards closer than DD.
That's not to discount the Den as a great many of these men were excellent shots. Just throwing other possibilities out there.

 

[Gettysburg Greg]

Ok, I'll be totally honest, I know very little about this stuff but I'm trying to learn so please take it easy on me LOL. I just watched a video viewed from Devils Den looking up at Little Round Top. I understand the confederate army were firing from DD to LRT. I dont know the distance between the 2 locations. My question is, how accurate were those shots coming from DD to LRT or any location really. They only had iron sites for the most part correct? Were the soldiers just shooting in the general direction of the enemy? Thanks in advance for the replies!

Per Google, the distance from Table Rock in DD to Warren Rock on the summit of LRT is just over 500 yards, a heck of a shot with open sights.

 

[JerryD]

As my dad used to say, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.

Just joking, of course. Its a great question, actually. I'll admit to standing in Devil's Den and looking up at LRT and thinking with a scope on a modern rifle it would still take a pretty good shot, and assumed they were just throwing lead at the hilltop and hoping to hit something, or at least keeping heads down. I sincerely doubt few if anyone could throw a plate over a three shot grouping at the top of LRT from Devils Den using then current ammo and rifles.

 

[Don Dixon]

Per Google, the distance from Table Rock in DD to Warren Rock on the summit of LRT is just over 500 yards, a heck of a shot with open sights.

Not particularly. Until recently the service rifle phases of Civilian Marksmanship Program and National Rifle Association high power rifle matches were shot with iron sights (M1, M14, and M16 variants). The "10" ring at 600 yards is 12 inches and at 1,000 yards is 20 inches. I regularly shot in the high 190s on the 600 yard phase (20 shots = 200 points), and was 6th in the Farr Trophy match at the National Matches. Sixteen of the shots I fired in the Farr would have hit you in the width of your head and the remaining four in the width of your chest.

Admittedly the M14 is a better rifle than was generally available in the Civil War. But, as I said earlier, it gets back to a trained rifleman using a good rifle and ammunition with which they have practiced on known distance ranges. Training, training, and more training.

If Johnny Reb and Billy Yank had really known how to shoot, or had been trained to do so, the casualties - given the close order tactics required for command and control - would have been beyond the baring of it.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[121st PA Vols]

As my dad used to say, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.

Just joking, of course. Its a great question, actually. I'll admit to standing in Devil's Den and looking up at LRT and thinking with a scope on a modern rifle it would still take a pretty good shot, and assumed they were just throwing lead at the hilltop and hoping to hit something, or at least keeping heads down. I sincerely doubt few if anyone could throw a plate over a three shot grouping at the top of LRT from Devils Den using then current ammo and rifles.

@JerryD well put. We'll never know but the thought of slinging lead makes sense and has been the prevailing thought among some folks I know. That is NOT to discredit the possibility it could have been one hell of a sharp shooter! And I like your dad.

@Gettysburg Greg. If you missed it, the NPS measured it at 523yds 40 years ago.

 

[Merlin1066]

As my dad used to say, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.

Just joking, of course. Its a great question, actually. I'll admit to standing in Devil's Den and looking up at LRT and thinking with a scope on a modern rifle it would still take a pretty good shot, and assumed they were just throwing lead at the hilltop and hoping to hit something, or at least keeping heads down. I sincerely doubt few if anyone could throw a plate over a three shot grouping at the top of LRT from Devils Den using then current ammo and rifles.

I agree, it's really not far for the weapons being used. In the midst of being fired at, the haze and smoke that was definatly present at that moment, it could not have been an "easy shot" I think I had said. I'm a pretty good shot, but ducking projectiles and the literal fog of war. I don't think I would be all that accurate. Especailly if I was using iron sites. Even with a scope, it would be easier yet still difficult as I'm not wanting my head blown off so to speak. I just cant imagine what the soldiers on BOTH sides were thinking as they fired up or down LRT.

 

[121st PA Vols]

And there is the simple and rather typical reality of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Especially on a battlefield.