Pickett Goes West???

[Nathan Stuart]

Lee...I despise Lee. He's excellent at Chickasaw bayou & as an artilleryman at Antietam. But when he was given larger numbers of cavalry & infantry he drops the ball hard. Tupelo, Ezra Church, & Jonesboro are horrendous performances on his part.

Gilmer, on the other hand, is much more interesting.

Seems S. D. Lee's performances were mixed. During the Atlanta and subsequent Franklin/Nashville Campaigns, though, he was subject to the command decisions of Hood. Following the rout of Hood's Army at Nashville, thought parts of Lee's Corps conducted an effective rearguard action shortly afterwards to cover the retreat.

Perhaps Lee's real benefit to the South was in his versatility as a field commander – leading artillery, cavalry and infantry units throughout the war. Overall, he might be summed up as a competent enough subordinate, without being brilliant or outstanding. In the final wash, never thought he was fit for Army high command, but thought he was capable enough for Corps command.

Agree, that Gilmer seems much more impressive.

 

[jackt62]

Thought another noteworthy Southern military leader who performed very well in the western theater was Georgian, John Stevens Bowen, who rose from Brigade to Division leadership. Pemberton rated him as, 'one of the best soldiers in the Confederate Army'. Unfortunately, Bowen died from dysentry on July 13, 1863, at Edwards, Mississippi, during the prime of his military career. He was considered an outstanding combat commander who was destined for an even higher command role, if he had survived.

Another good one! With his artillery at Grand Gulf, he held off Grant's attempt to cross the Mississippi at that place. Not long after, his daring counterattack at Champion Hill, had it been reinforced, might have turned the tide of battle and changed the outcome of the entire Vicksburg campaign.

 

[Norman Dasinger Jr]

Unless the UDC or SCV has put up a marker glorifying Pickett's murders I'd imagine there's not much. There was a small historical marker but I'm not sure if it has been removed or not.

There are plenty of threads on this particular issue. Let's stick to what, if any, impact Pickett could have had in the western theater.

You are the one that brought it up.

 

[Luke Freet]

Seems S. D. Lee's performances were mixed. During the Atlanta and subsequent Franklin/Nashville Campaigns, though, he was subject to the command decisions of Hood. Following the rout of Hood's Army at Nashville, thought parts of Lee's Corps conducted an effective rearguard action shortly afterwards to cover the retreat.

I disagree with this assessment. Hood was not overseeing him at either Ezra Church or Jonesboro, in which he launched unnecessary assaults on his own initiative in the former; and bungled Hardee's attack plan at the latter by going in too early.

I'd say Lee should have been stuck on artillery, rather than try fitting him into commanding infantry or cavalry. It was clearly not his skillset.

 

[Luke Freet]

Thought another noteworthy Southern military leader who performed very well in the western theater was Georgian, John Stevens Bowen, who rose from Brigade to Division leadership. Pemberton rated him as, 'one of the best soldiers in the Confederate Army'. Unfortunately, Bowen died from dysentry on July 13, 1863, at Edwards, Mississippi, during the prime of his military career. He was considered an outstanding combat commander who was destined for an even higher command role, if he had survived.

Bowen did prove himself an excellent division commander during the Vicksburg campaign, though one wonders how he would handle corps command.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Bowen did prove himself an excellent division commander during the Vicksburg campaign, though one wonders how he would handle corps command.

Agree. In relation to the wonder, he definitely appeared to be on the rapid rise trajectory, in terms of field performance and promotions, before his untimely demise.

 

[John Wolf Smith]

If Pickett and his division were sent then it would be 5 brigades of Garnett, Kemper, Armistead, Corse & the western virginia Brigade which were the 29th, 50th, 54th, 63rd VA & 23rd VA Battalion which may have still been in Pickett's command. This brigade I think was disband in April with the 29th & 50th staying with Lee and the other three going west to Bragg.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

I disagree with this assessment. Hood was not overseeing him at either Ezra Church or Jonesboro, in which he launched unnecessary assaults on his own initiative in the former; and bungled Hardee's attack plan at the latter by going in too early.

I'd say Lee should have been stuck on artillery, rather than try fitting him into commanding infantry or cavalry. It was clearly not his skillset.

Agree about S. D. Lee.. Have revised assessment, after reviewing the timeline of his wartime actions.

It was during his period as an artillery commander in the eastern theater (particularly at Antietam), that he was most effective.

At the start of the Vicksburg Campaign, he had brief success leading an infantry Division that repulsed Sherman's attacks at Chickasaw Bayou.

Following the fall of Vicksburg, his performance as a Divisional then Departmental cavalry commander out west could be described as tentative, uncertain and unenthusiastic. In this role, he was lacking in organizational ability and a strategic mindset for planning mounted movements over large areas (he was also not helped by the poor co-ordination in Confederate high command). Thought he did not have the audacity, dare and aggression to think like an effective cavalry leader.

As a newly created infantry Corps commander during the Atlanta Campaign, his command inexperience and faulty judgements showed through a series of wasteful charges at Ezra Church (a breakdown in communications with Hood occurred there, too). His troops, however, did participate in the limited success stopping Schofield's movement against rail lines at Utoy Creek. But at Jonesboro, he also ordered a premature attack that resulted in heavy losses.

It seems Lee was clearly unsuited to any cavalry command or infantry leadership at Corps level. As you say, he simply didn't have the skillset for the effective command of such units. Would be struggling to rate his command performance in both these capacities as even barely adequate.

Concur that S. D. Lee was essentially and predominantly an artilleryman – by training, experience and successes.

 

[jackt62]

It seems Lee was clearly unsuited to any cavalry command or infantry leadership at Corps level.

Probably the best example would be Forrest's rare defeat at the battle of Tupelo in July 1864. Lee as overall commander was responsible for an imperfect cavalry alignment, opposed by Forrest that led to General Smith's victory over the Confederates. Lee might have performed most admirably in an artillery role but also did so in commanding infantry at Champion Hill. So looking at the big picture, I wouldn't necessarily make so harsh a judgement against him.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

So looking at the big picture, I wouldn't necessarily make so harsh a judgement against him.

Fair point. Perhaps that assessment of him as a Cavalry and Corps commander is a little harsh. Nevertheless, in these roles, thought the magnitude of his command failures still greatly exceeded any limited successes he managed.

Thought too, he was only appointed to Infantry Corps command late in the war, because the Confederacy was bereft of suitable and capable commanders to fulfil the position.

Don't believe, though, that Pickett would have performed any better in these same circumstances.

 

[jackt62]

Don't believe, though, that Pickett would have performed any better in these same circumstances.

Agreed