personalized Weapons

[byron ed]

Article 82-Soldiers are not permitted to take their arms to pieces except in the presence of an officer...a certified statement giving the date when the loss or damage occurred, the name of the soldier, the articles charged, their total value and the date of the muster and payroll on which the charges are entered is made in duplicate...Inspections were held by the first sergeant daily, the company commander weekly, the regimental commander/staff monthly.

Article 1426-Every officer commanding a regiment, corps, garrison or detachment, shall make at the end of February, April, June, August, October and December a report to the chief of ordinance stating all damages...occasioned by negligence or abuse and naming the officer or soldier by whose negligence or abuse the said damages were occasioned...

In what CW war universe (and by what indications) can we be expected to believe that kind of petty martinet tripe actually carried into the field in a majority volunteer army? Maybe for a few weeks in muster camp, longer in Eastern venue and the few career units.

The real army -- on the ground during a war -- was not a vision of itself as dictated in rote to some junior officer or clerk in a room in NY or Washington. It was a real army with real officers, and there were significant transgressions to deal with. A few scratchings on a gun stock? Meh.

Anyway the official manuals are pretty much all online, a default source. Everybody already knows about them. There's no revelations there.

 

[Package4]

In what CW war universe (and by what indications) can we be expected to believe that kind of petty martinet tripe actually carried into the field in a majority volunteer army? Maybe for a few weeks in muster camp, longer in Eastern venue and the few career units.

The real army -- on the ground during a war -- was not a vision of itself as dictated in rote to some junior officer or clerk in a room in NY or Washington. It was a real army with real officers, and there were significant transgressions to deal with. A few scratchings on a gun stock? Meh.

Anyway the official manuals are pretty much all online, a default source. Everybody already knows about them. There's no revelations there.

Really, you were there, you have evidence? Please provide, my evidence are the lack of identifying marks on the majority of extant items on the facing side. Couple that with the regulations and it is a reasonable explanation as to why soldiers would not deface their property, except on the underside out of view. The Roadshow crew in addition to Les Jensen agreed with this while, discussing during the Baltimore Show, as well as Paul Johnson, the leading expert of Union Cartridge Boxes.

Our discussion centered around the differences between commonly carried Confederate accouterments and weapons, compared to their Union counterparts. The consensus was that the regulations and returns were followed and with alacrity, in the Union Army, while strain on supply and use of captured items in the South dictated different treatment.

It was stated, that one would lean toward Confederate ownership with large defacing marks on a piece particularly on Union gear and that name research would usually prove this to be correct.

Extant returns are proof that these were not merely martinets, but officers responsible for equipment issued and those returns are dated into 1866. Inspections and reviews were a common occurrence in all theaters throughout the war.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

MooseDog.....
Please post a photo or two of the lock/bolster/breech area of this musket, and especially any marks stamped into the barrel in the breech area... I may have some information for you concerning where the percussion alteration, and barrel shortening was performed.
Thanks.

 

[Package4]

Anyway the official manuals are pretty much all online, a default source. Everybody already knows about them. There's no revelations there.[/QUOTE]

Wow, how rich, maybe you should read and understand them before posting, you were the individual who had no clue that enlisted field artillery were issued the M1851 square belt plates, even though you professed to portraying an artillerist. Please spare the condescension

 

[James N.]

Article 82-Soldiers are not permitted to take their arms to pieces except in the presence of an officer, nor under any circumstances to deface the metallic or wooden parts, by attempts to beautify or change the finish of the exterior. The equipment's furnished each man under the direction of an officer and after fitting he is allowed to make no change, by cutting straps or punching holes...

Inspections were held by the first sergeant daily, the company commander weekly, the regimental commander/staff monthly.

This is also one reason why musket/rifle tools like mainspring vises and nipple wrench/screwdriver combination tools were only issued to company first sergeants too!

 

[Package4]

For those interested in the personalization of items and the various ways and locations I have a small sampling of items here and have been very interested for years in I'd material.

The Enfield is I'd to Augustus Obdefer, 2nd MD CS, unfortunately the previous collector had the sight soldered on backwards; the grouping came with his copper cup and housewife (not shown)
One of my favorite groupings is the Mexican War era cup and haversack of Warren Fuller 32nd Mass. wounded at the Wheatfield. (the haversack is very fragile and crusty with his blood, retains the rice bag)
Artillery Shell jacket is from Henry Wuelzer (Wilser) 1st OH Battery I-his section purportedly fired the round that killed Leonidas Polk.
M1839 Pattern Box and belt of John B. Rigel Co A 3rd TX Inf
Box, cap box, canteen and belt of William Wilson Co E 10th SC Inf
Belt and cap box of Michael Calligan 59th NY Inf Co A Killed during Picket's Charge at the wall (unfortunately these were taken from his body before burial and he now rests in an unmarked grave, in the NY section at Gettysburg)
Cup of John Reed, Jr. Co A 20th Maine, killed at Little Round Top July 2nd 1863, effects returned to the family.
Shell jacket of a yet identified Georgia soldier with initials on inside pocket (wool jacket with linen interior, all federal buttons down the front)
Kepi of Lt. William Harwood Co D 3rd VA Cavalry killed at Farmville, VA
Cav Saber of Corporal James Waddell Co F 2nd NC Cav

All of these items have markings, clearly identifying the owner, but very few have overt markings that are evidenced by the casual observer. The Enfield has AO carved into the flat and the SC rig has WWilson prominently carved into the belt outward face.

Michael Calligan, for instance, marked his cap box on the obverse with 59NY and his belt plate had his name and unit calligraphied into the lead back.

All of the cartridge boxes have the Ids under the flap and the collection has at least 25 more of the same, unless the marking is on the underside sling area.

Wadell's saber was marked under the guard

Know where to look when at shows, Les Jensen, curator of the Museum at the Military Academy, was telling me a story of a Confederate frock coat that defied identification for years. He was at the Museum of the Confederacy at the time and many officer's frocks have a loop in the neck area to be hung on a hook, this particular coat had just such a loop. Les knew for years that this was a common area to mark coats, both North and South, but for some reason this particular coat slipped by. Upon taking it out of its storage vault and box for cursory cleaning, there was the Id on the backside of the loop.

I have just such a coat, called the Parker Coat, Stephen Parker had the coat commercially made wore it as an enlisted man in the 44th MA. When his enlistment was up, he apparently gave the coat to another soldier, whose name escapes me and I'm too lazy to go down to the vault, but was returned to the family, where Don Troiani found it years ago. Stephen would re-enlist as a Sgt and was kia at the Crater with the 59th MA

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/pvt-stephen-henry-parkers-frock-coat.131151/

Anyway, know where to look, it may surprise you to find that one of your prize pieces is even more special and identified.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Thanks Package4,
When are you going to cover your carpet with another load of amazing stuff, again....?
{I know someone who covets the "SC" rig.... please, please}

 

[Package4]

Thanks Package4,
When are you going to cover your carpet with another load of amazing stuff, again....?
{I know someone who covets the "SC" rig.... please, please}

You know with another "scotch tasting" night, the rig might be in jeopardy......I hope you didn't pull the trigger on the CS Arsenal cap box! Oh and thank you for pushing me to Paul, we are in the middle of M1857 pattern box negotiations!

 

[James N.]

That's a great collection - you must be very proud to have so many representative items and so many of them identified! I have very little identified and have posted them before, but the best items were from a lot that had been consigned to Dallas' Militaria shop back in the 1960's when I was a college student and therefore only able to afford part of it. It had belonged to Lt. Col. Joseph Holmes, commander at Petersburg of the 8th N. Y. Heavy Artillery serving as infantry after Grant's Overland Campaign. According to the story, Holmes had moved after the war to Dallas and become a Methodist (?) minister; his two spinster daughters had no one to leave their father's possessions to, so consigned them to my friend and mentor Bob Cowan. Stupidly I didn't think about putting the entire collection on layaway so missed the really good things like his sword (and maybe a Colt Navy revolver?) and commissions up to and including lt. col.

Things belonging to Holmes I did get include in the photo above his striped polished cotton housewife at bottom; leather-covered glass punkin seed whiskey flask at right; pair of bone dice and chess pawn, center; and best, his French made-and-marked field glasses top left. I also have a pair of his red-inset shoulder straps with silver lt. col. oakleaves in the shadowbox below, along with another pair of staff first lieutenant's that came out of a pile belonging to Ohio Col. Oscar Sterl who commanded a small two-regiment brigade during Sherman's March to the Sea and Carolina Campaign (Sterl's is the photo displayed above it.):

 

[Package4]

That's a great collection - you must be very proud to have so many representative items and so many of them identified! I have very little identified and have posted them before, but the best items were from a lot that had been consigned to Dallas' Militaria shop back in the 1960's when I was a college student and therefore only able to afford part of it. It had belonged to Lt. Col. Joseph Holmes, commander at Petersburg of the 8th N. Y. Heavy Artillery serving as infantry after Grant's Overland Campaign. According to the story, Holmes had moved after the war to Dallas and become a Methodist (?) minister; his two spinster daughters had no one to leave their father's possessions to, so consigned them to my friend and mentor Bob Cowan. Stupidly I didn't think about putting the entire collection on layaway so missed the really good things like his sword (and maybe a Colt revolver?) and commissions up to and including lt. col.

View attachment 181027
Things belonging to Holmes I did get include in the photo above his striped polished cotton housewife at bottom; leather-covered glass punkin seed whiskey flask at right; pair of bone dice and chess pawn, center; and best, his French made-and-marked field glasses top left. I also have a pair of his red-inset shoulder straps with silver lt. col. oakleaves in the shadowbox below, along with another pair of staff first lieutenant's that came out of a pile belonging to Ohio Col. Oscar Sterl who commanded a small brigade during Sherman's March to the Sea and Carolina Campaign (Sterl's is the photo displayed above it.):

View attachment 181026

Wow! What nice groupings and displayed rather tastefully I might add! Yes the ones that got away, I could fill a bathtub with tears or spilt milk, which one is it? The hunt goes on, though the counterfeiters are getting better and better as evidenced by the recent Baltimore Show.........

 

[captaindrew]

For those interested in the personalization of items and the various ways and locations I have a small sampling of items here and have been very interested for years in I'd material.View attachment 181008
The Enfield is I'd to Augustus Obdefer, 2nd MD CS, unfortunately the previous collector had the sight soldered on backwards; the grouping came with his copper cup and housewife (not shown)
One of my favorite groupings is the Mexican War era cup and haversack of Warren Fuller 32nd Mass. wounded at the Wheatfield. (the haversack is very fragile and crusty with his blood, retains the rice bag)
Artillery Shell jacket is from Henry Wuelzer (Wilser) 1st OH Battery I-his section purportedly fired the round that killed Leonidas Polk.
M1839 Pattern Box and belt of John B. Rigel Co A 3rd TX Inf
Box, cap box, canteen and belt of William Wilson Co E 10th SC Inf
Belt and cap box of Michael Calligan 59th NY Inf Co A Killed during Picket's Charge at the wall (unfortunately these were taken from his body before burial and he now rests in an unmarked grave, in the NY section at Gettysburg)
Cup of John Reed, Jr. Co A 20th Maine, killed at Little Round Top July 2nd 1863, effects returned to the family.
Shell jacket of a yet identified Georgia soldier with initials on inside pocket (wool jacket with linen interior, all federal buttons down the front)
Kepi of Lt. William Harwood Co D 3rd VA Cavalry killed at Farmville, VA
Cav Saber of Corporal James Waddell Co F 2nd NC Cav

All of these items have markings, clearly identifying the owner, but very few have overt markings that are evidenced by the casual observer. The Enfield has AO carved into the flat and the SC rig has WWilson proximately carved into the belt outward face.

Michael Calligan, for instance, marked his cap box on the obverse with 59NY and his belt plate had his name and unit calligraphied into the lead back.

All of the cartridge boxes have the Ids under the flap and the collection has at least 25 more of the same, unless the marking is on the underside sling area.

Wadell's saber was marked under the guard

Know where to look when at shows, Les Jensen, curator of the Museum at the Military Academy, was telling me a story of a Confederate frock coat that defied identification for years. He was at the Museum of the Confederacy at the time and many officer's frocks have a loop in the neck area to be hung on a hook, this particular coat had just such a loop. Les knew for years that this was a common area to mark coats, both North and South, but for some reason this particular coat slipped by. Upon taking it out of its storage vault and box for cursory cleaning, there was the Id on the backside of the loop.

I have just such a coat, called the Parker Coat, Stephen Parker had the coat commercially made wore it as an enlisted man in the 44th MA. When his enlistment was up, he apparently gave the coat to another soldier, whose name escapes me and I'm too lazy to go down to the vault, but was returned to the family, where Don Troiani found it years ago. Stephen would re-enlist as a Sgt and was kia at the Crater with the 59th MA

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/pvt-stephen-henry-parkers-frock-coat.131151/

Anyway, know where to look, it may surprise you to find that one of your prize pieces is even more special and identified.

Outstanding collection, thanks for showing it. If it's not too much trouble do you have any close up photos of the Confederate shell jacket? Thanks again.

 

[captaindrew]

That's a great collection - you must be very proud to have so many representative items and so many of them identified! I have very little identified and have posted them before, but the best items were from a lot that had been consigned to Dallas' Militaria shop back in the 1960's when I was a college student and therefore only able to afford part of it. It had belonged to Lt. Col. Joseph Holmes, commander at Petersburg of the 8th N. Y. Heavy Artillery serving as infantry after Grant's Overland Campaign. According to the story, Holmes had moved after the war to Dallas and become a Methodist (?) minister; his two spinster daughters had no one to leave their father's possessions to, so consigned them to my friend and mentor Bob Cowan. Stupidly I didn't think about putting the entire collection on layaway so missed the really good things like his sword (and maybe a Colt Navy revolver?) and commissions up to and including lt. col.

View attachment 181027
Things belonging to Holmes I did get include in the photo above his striped polished cotton housewife at bottom; leather-covered glass punkin seed whiskey flask at right; pair of bone dice and chess pawn, center; and best, his French made-and-marked field glasses top left. I also have a pair of his red-inset shoulder straps with silver lt. col. oakleaves in the shadowbox below, along with another pair of staff first lieutenant's that came out of a pile belonging to Ohio Col. Oscar Sterl who commanded a small brigade during Sherman's March to the Sea and Carolina Campaign (Sterl's is the photo displayed above it.):

View attachment 181026

Thank you as well James N. Always enjoy seeing your goodies, you have an amazing collection as well.

 

[Package4]

Thanks Package4,
When are you going to cover your carpet with another load of amazing stuff, again....?
{I know someone who covets the "SC" rig.... please, please}

Only because you asked nicely, my latest prize, in your honor:

 

[captaindrew]

Hey, I had one of those caps when I was a kid. It was a prized possession at the time. Probably still have it hiding in a box somewhere.

 

[Package4]

Outstanding collection, thanks for showing it. If it's not too much trouble do you have any close up photos of the Confederate shell jacket? Thanks again.

 

[captaindrew]

View attachment 181038 View attachment 181037 View attachment 181039 View attachment 181040 View attachment 181042 View attachment 181044

Fantastic, thank you so much.

 

[captaindrew]

Is it a Richmond Depot jacket?

 

[Package4]

Is it a Richmond Depot jacket?

No, it is based on that pattern, but not a depot jacket. Les Jensen thinks that it is a locally made Georgia jacket, it came out of a family in Georgia, with the haversack.

 

[captaindrew]

No, it is based on that pattern, but not a depot jacket. Les Jensen thinks that it is a locally made Georgia jacket, it came out of a family in Georgia, with the haversack.

Thank you once again, what a great piece. I can't get enough of looking over Confederate garments. So many variations of style and materials, always interesting. One of the main reasons I enjoy doing a Confederate impression, always learning something new.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Here is an ID'd P1853 I picked up recently. The inscription is to Private George Voorhees, Company B, 124th Illinois Infantry. The stock flat is also carved with "Vicksburg" denoting his service there and the place where he likely acquired the musket. This musket is also marked on the belly of the stock with a two hexagram "L" stamps indicating this was a Confederate Louisiana purchased gun.
Unfortunately the musket was "sporterized" after its military service and as such the barrel and stock were both shortened, rear sight removed, and the bore reamed out to roughly .60 caliber.