Period Muzzle Loader 12G ...

[bravo30]

Not sure if this belongs here but this is a period firearm. Scott and Son 12g. 34'' barrel. i know little to nothing about antique muzzle loading 12g shotguns so i was hoping to gain a bit of insight as far as history, value etc etc

thank you, Brad

 

[bravo30]

i have the opportunity to purchase this. Buyer wants $5,000 in his pocket. thats a strong number.

 

[plymouthairrifle]

interesting stock repair. I do not know what planet this seller is from that thinks this is a 5K gun.

 

[bravo30]

interesting stock repair. I do not know what planet this seller is from that thinks this is a 5K gun.

just through a number out there i presume. i figured $1,000

 

[bravo30]

interesting stock repair. I do not know what planet this seller is from that thinks this is a 5K gun.

where do you see a stock repair ?

 

[JOHN42768]

Nice looking, but agree I don't see 5K

 

[JOHN42768]

I could be wrong, but the large brass plate on both sides of trigger guard do not seem to blend in with the ornate other brass.

 

[UCVRelics]

I could be wrong, but the large brass plate on both sides of trigger guard do not seem to blend in with the ornate other brass

Good eye John you beat me 2 but anyway 5K he must have fallen as a child and hit his head repeatedly to want that. Its a very nice piece and the repair is a thing of beauty for that time.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

In my experience you would be hard pressed to get $300 for it with the fractured and crudely/non-professionally repaired stock.
J.

 

[bravo30]

I could be wrong, but the large brass plate on both sides of trigger guard do not seem to blend in with the ornate other brass.

ok i see. Yes i agree. Now that you mention it it does not appear to be of the same quality. the brass pieces are not even the same length as seen in the one photo below.

 

[Patrick H]

where do you see a stock repair ?

I am not sure what our friend was referencing, but I am VERY suspicious of the brass plate wrapped around on either side of the trigger group. I think that conceals a repair. I would have raised an alarm about it if it hadn't already been called to your attention. I think that's probably what raised plymouthairrifle's suspicions, too.

Definitely NOT $5,000. No way. Equally nice shotguns will come your way for a tenth of that or less. Guns without stock wrist repairs will come your way for much less, too.

I must say I do like the other stock furniture (inlays) but I'm not sure whether they are original or whether they are designed to take your attention away from the wrist repair.

I am far from being an expert and I admit it, but I can see what's wrong with this deal. Don't fall for it.

 

[Patrick H]

In my previous note, I forgot to ask where you determined that this is a 12 gauge. I see 13 and 15 stamped on the underside of the barrels, but that's odd, too. Or am I seeing two 13 stamps? I would not be too surprised at an 11, a 12, a 13, a 14, a 15, or a 16 gauge gun from this era. But I am frankly confused by two different numbers under the barrels. Some expert will probably tell me those numbers mean something different, and that's okay with me. I will learn something new if that happens. Or...someone will just tell me to get my eyeglasses updated, and that's okay, too!

 

[bravo30]

Its a very nice piece and the repair is a thing of beauty for that time.

if only the screws were in the same direction

 

[bravo30]

it seems obvious now but this is a credit to the craftsmanship of the repair. at first glance your eyes are drawn to the busy metal work and not the crack.

 

[bravo30]

In my previous note, I forgot to ask where you determined that this is a 12 gauge. I see 13 and 15 stamped on the underside of the barrels, but that's odd, too. I would not be too surprised at an 11, a 12, a 13, a 14, a 15, or a 16 gauge gun from this era. But I am frankly confused by two different numbers under the barrels. Some expert will probably tell me those numbers mean something different, and that's okay with me. I will learn something new if that happens.

i assumed it was 12g ... the numbers underneath the barrel are 13 and 13. i just checked with a loop.

 

[johan_steele]

It's not shootable without some serious repair work. I would say $300 would be expensive as you're looking at at least $100 to get the old nipples out add another $100 to get the barrels checked and a minimum of $200 to repair the stock properly.

$5k is a pipe dream.

 

[Youngblood]

Why would they go to so much trouble as to have all that custom metal work done to make a repair when they could have just had a wood guy carve up a new stock?

 

[mofederal]

That's a lot of money for that shotgun. I know it's English, but the repair bother's me as well as the nipples, a lot of rust there. Not well taken care of over time.

 

[Ralph Heinz]

Scott and Son would be W & C Scott of Birmingham and those are Birmingham proofs on the barrel next to the 13 guage stamp. The LONDON on the barrel rib was most likely meant to deceive the buyer as London made firearms were considered superior.

This was a fairy high quality shotgun but the two pieces of brass screwed to the bottom of the stock are a common type of repair for a bad break in the stock at a point where muzzle loaders frequently broke. It worked and was a cheap repair. This English shotgun is contemporary with the Civil War in this country and it may have been imported to America.

I agree that the price should be in the $300 range or even less. There isn't much interest in percussion double barreled shotguns unless they have Confederate provenance. I owned a W. Greener with barrels cut down to cavalry length years ago and have another now that was made in San Francisco by J. Bach with original short barrels as a stage coach guards gun during the gold rush.

Check with the seller and see if they have a beat up old VW Bug for sale in the $100,000 range.

 

[zburkett]

I am no expert but that gun looks to me like someone has done a lot of clean up on the stock and brass. The metal is too clean to go with those rusted in nipples. While that might be an interesting wall hanger, at that price, there are a lot of really interesting guns out there.