Pemberton a scapegoat?

[TFSmith121]

I can see the alure of trenches.

Most definitely.

Best,

 

[Yankeedave]

Bragg is where? Rosecrans?

 

[leftyhunter]

Bragg is where? Rosecrans?

Deep in Central Tennessee near where the battle of Stone River was fought. If Bragg led his forces to Vicksburg he would of opened the door for Rosecrans to invade Georgia or North Carolina.
Leftyhunter

 

[Yankeedave]

Deep in Central Tennessee near where the battle of Stone River was fought. If Bragg led his forces to Vicksburg he wouldof opened the door for Rosecrans to invade Georgia or North Carolina.
Leftyhunter

Or both.

 

[leftyhunter]

The article titled above characterizing Pemberton as "the wrong man at the wrong place", is quite harsh it is evaluation of Pemberton's overall standing as a leader:

Historically, successful battlefield commanders possessed certain common characteristics. Civil War commanders such as Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant are notable because they shared the qualities of perspective, responsibility, intuition, daring, and endurance. These traits were conspicuously lacking in the leadership of Lieutenant General John C. Pemberton during the Vicksburg campaign. http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/vicksburg/vicksburg-history-articles/pembertonsmithhg.html#​

I just read the link. Per that article Pemperton was indeed promoted way past his pay grade. A very tragic figure. Pemperton commits treason on the United States and gets no love back from his supposedly new found friends. Pemperton apparently had only one loyal supporter (Davis) who himself has no shortage of domestic critic's.
Leftyhunter

 

[atlantis]

Pemberton had been stripped of most of his mounted troops. I would also point out that Davis kept Johnston in overall command long after it was clear Johnston did not have his heart in it. I submit that if Pemberton had been able to keep his mounted troops and not been ordered to hold Vicksburg and Johnston had been kept out of the picture, Pemberton would have prevailed in driving Grant out.

 

[leftyhunter]

Or both.

Old Rosy is a one thing at a time kind of guy.
Leftyhunter

 

[atlantis]

I just read the link. Per that article Pemperton was indeed promoted way past his pay grade. A very tragic figure. Pemperton commits treason on the United States and gets no love back from his supposedly new found friends. Pemperton apparently had only one loyal supporter (Davis) who himself has no shortage of domestic critic's.
Leftyhunter

If he resigned his US commission before accepting CS commission is it still treason?

 

[Yankeedave]

Old Rosy is a one thing at a time kind of guy.
Leftyhunter

lol.

 

[Yankeedave]

Pemberton had been stripped of most of his mounted troops. I would also point out that Davis kept Johnston in overall command long after it was clear Johnston did not have his heart in it. I submit that if Pemberton had been able to keep his mounted troops and not been ordered to hold Vicksburg and Johnston had been kept out of the picture, Pemberton would have prevailed in driving Grant out.

I almost want to say do a rommel and meet grant on the beachead.

 

[atlantis]

I almost want to say do a rommel and meet grant on the beachead.

And we know how Rommel ended up.

 

[atlantis]

It was wrong to take his rank away he was a devoted patriot and officer of the CSA. Bragg did not lose his rank.

 

[Yankeedave]

He wasn't allowed do as he wanted. and true he was somewhere else at the start, but that wasn't his down fall.
Have all rebs hold till grant is crossing. then quickly move. banks isnt going to catch anyone. rosy and the usn are wild cards.

 

[leftyhunter]

If he resigned his US commission before accepting CS commission is it still treason?

Any American who fires on or leads men who fires on American troops is a traitor. In order to end the Civil War it was necessary for the Union to forgive those who commited treason. If we substitute the word Confederate for a more contemporary miltary/relgious organization that a U.S. military officer decided to resign his commison and instead join that organization , would that not be treason?
Leftyhunter

 

[Yankeedave]

They were americans at heart i think. wrecked by the war they continued help build america. some of our best post war icons were/are southern.

 

[atlantis]

He wasn't allowed do as he wanted. and true he was somewhere else at the start, but that wasn't his down fall.
Have all rebs hold till grant is crossing. then quickly move. banks isnt going to catch anyone. rosy and the usn are wild cards.

I am not Sure Rommel plan of defense would have worked given the lack of air cover. As for hold all rebs until grant crossed then move quickly, sounds good.

 

[atlantis]

Any American who fires on or leads men who fires on American troops is a traitor. In order to end the Civil War it was necessary for the Union to forgive those who commited treason. If we substitute the word Confederate for a more contemporary miltary/relgious organization that a U.S. military officer decided to resign his commison and instead join that organization , would that not be treason?
Leftyhunter

But CSA is a independent nation just like Mexico. If the states have to be held together at gunpoint that is not a union of states but an empire.

 

[Bee]

But CSA is a independent nation just like Mexico.

This starts to mix the Nation-Country designation, which at any rate, pulling the discussion in that direction will surely spoil a good thread.

 

[Yankeedave]

I am not Sure Rommel plan of defense would have worked given the lack of air cover. As for hold all rebs until grant crossed then move quickly, sounds good.

The weather was helpfull at first. as for the rebs i know they are good fighters. i am always trying to find ways to consolidate them.

 

[leftyhunter]

But CSA is a independent nation just like Mexico. If the states have to be held together at gunpoint that is not a union of states but an empire.

As Bee indicated that is a topic gor another thread. We have had numerous threads about treason and the CSA being or not being a nation.
Leftyhunter