Pattern 53 Enfield question from a new recruit....

[Enfieldnut53]

Howdy to everybody..I hail from the great state of Texas!!!I actually already have a civil war related question:
I have a 1862 dated pattern 1853 Enfield 3 band rifled musket. It has ' Tower', the British crown and the date 1862 on the lock.
It also has a stamp with the name ' R. Hamer in the wood hidden under the trigger guard, and the name P. Rodes stamped on the underside of the barrel.
Is anyone familiar with these names?
I'm trying to determine if this gun was British or American made.
Thanks to all you. Musket fans out there...Lol

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome from THE Heart Of Dixie. It is a British made Enfield and if you could post some photos it would be helpful. In the mean time lets page our Enfield gurus. @Lanyard Puller and @Craig L Barry

 

[Enfieldnut53]

Welcome from THE Heart Of Dixie. It is a British made Enfield and if you could post some photos it would be helpful. In the mean time lets page our Enfield gurus. @Lanyard Puller and @Craig L Barry

Awesome !!

 

[Enfieldnut53]

I've already put it back together, and the names are all hidden...of course.
I was just wondering if these names ring a bell..

 

[johan_steele]

You have a British made P53. Commercial made, more information will be required to identify where in Britain it was made. Pictures are always good.

 

[UCVRelics]

They were the barrel maker and stock makers.

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

Any other markings on the stock? Pictures please.

 

[Enfieldnut53]

You have a British made P53. Commercial made, more information will be required to identify where in Britain it was made. Pictures are always good.

There are no visible markings on the stock...with the exception of some ' trench art' scribbled on the left side by some Kat named Wesley Culp.....not really, but someone put their initials on it.
All the markings are underneath the trigger guard and the barrel.
I was really just hoping yall had heard of the aforementioned names. Were they well known stockmakers or barrel manufacturers, or just some obscure names forever lost to history..?

 

[Enfieldnut53]

Any other markings on the stock? Pictures please.

No other markings...but the brass buttplate has the poorly fit hanging off the bottom of the stock look you typically see on confederate rifles.
I wish it had more markings I could tie to some unit in Texas or Georgia or Louisiana or.....you get the idea..Lol

 

[Enfieldnut53]

They were the barrel maker and stock makers.

Well known..?

 

[Enfieldnut53]

You have a British made P53. Commercial made, more information will be required to identify where in Britain it was made. Pictures are always good.

 

[Enfieldnut53]

And what's really amazing is that the only external pitting on the barrel Is hairline above the wood...above the lock plate. There is no mercurial rust from the percussion caps that is usually so prevalent on these.
Someone took good care of this one!

 

[Old Soldier]

It's a pretty standard Type 3 P53 made for the civilian market. The names are those of the various makers, an mentioned earlier. Although the lock is marked 'TOWER' this was just a Birmingham tradition and there are no 'inspectors stamps' to be seen. The hammer does not bear the Enfield patterning around the head either. There is no 'V.R' under the crown as per the civilian variety.

The butt plate fit is always debatable since much time - and effort - has been expended on the wood - the most likely part of the rifle to be on the ground. I have one Liege example where the butt is considerably shorter than the standard with the badly distorted plate rarely flush with the wood. It may well have been shortened to fit! If it is of British origin, it will have civilian proof marks on the barrel to the left of the breech like this:

That shows the barrel at least was proofed before leaving the factory. No military P53 has these unless is was 'sold out of service'. Belgian made barrels and rifles have different proof marks. If no British barrels were available, they would occasionally use imported Belgian ones assembled to a British stock and lock in Birmingham. Quite often, the makers name is on the top of the barrel too.

 

[Craig L Barry]

"R Hamer" was the gunmaker which means he was responsible for "setting up" your Enfield. I would say he was not one of the larger or better known gunmakers operating in the Birmingham Gun Quarter during the mid-19th century. It is not a name with which I am familiar or have come across before.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Your P-53 RIFLE musket was probably Birmingham made {5 proof stamps on the left side of the barrel breech, as posted above}, and the 2 names you found were members of the very large gun making community there. Confederate rifles {I have more than a "few"} do not have {"typically"} butt plates that overhang {to protect the wood from damage}. There are no marks on your P-53 making it Confederate.

"with the exception of some ' trench art' scribbled on the left side by some Kat named Wesley Culp.....not really, but someone put their initials on it." How did you come up with "Wesley Culp" ???

 

[Enfieldnut53]

Your P-53 RIFLE musket was probably Birmingham made {5 proof stamps on the left side of the barrel breech, as posted above}, and the 2 names you found were members of the very large gun making community there. Confederate rifles {I have more than a "few"} do not have {"typically"} butt plates that overhang {to protect the wood from damage}. There are no marks on your P-53 making it Confederate.

"with the exception of some ' trench art' scribbled on the left side by some Kat named Wesley Culp.....not really, but someone put their initials on it." How did you come up with "Wesley Culp" ???

He died at Gettysburg....probably carried an enfield....who knows. Maybe I'm just random like that.

 

[Enfieldnut53]

It's a pretty standard Type 3 P53 made for the civilian market. The names are those of the various makers, an mentioned earlier. Although the lock is marked 'TOWER' this was just a Birmingham tradition and there are no 'inspectors stamps' to be seen. The hammer does not bear the Enfield patterning around the head either. Ther is no 'V.R' under the crown as per the civilian variety.

The butt plate fit is always debatable since much time - and effort - has been expended on the wood - the most likely part of the rifle to be on the ground. I have one Liege example where the butt is considerably shorter than the standard with the badly distorted plate rarely flush with the wood. It may well have been shortened to fit! If it is of British origin, it will have civilian proof marks on the barrel to the left of the breech like this:

View attachment 440522
That shows the barrel at least was proofed before leaving the factory. No military P53 has these unless is was 'sold out of service'. Belgian made barrels and rifles have different proof marks. If no British barrels were available, they would occasionally use imported Belgian ones assembled to a British stock and lock in Birmingham. Quite often, the makers name is on the top of the barrel too.

It's a pretty standard Type 3 P53 made for the civilian market. The names are those of the various makers, an mentioned earlier. Although the lock is marked 'TOWER' this was just a Birmingham tradition and there are no 'inspectors stamps' to be seen. The hammer does not bear the Enfield patterning around the head either. Ther is no 'V.R' under the crown as per the civilian variety.

The butt plate fit is always debatable since much time - and effort - has been expended on the wood - the most likely part of the rifle to be on the ground. I have one Liege example where the butt is considerably shorter than the standard with the badly distorted plate rarely flush with the wood. It may well have been shortened to fit! If it is of British origin, it will have civilian proof marks on the barrel to the left of the breech like this:

View attachment 440522
That shows the barrel at least was proofed before leaving the factory. No military P53 has these unless is was 'sold out of service'. Belgian made barrels and rifles have different proof marks. If no British barrels were available, they would occasionally use imported Belgian ones assembled to a British stock and lock in Birmingham. Quite often, the makers name is on the top of the barrel too.

Like this...? Just didn't know what these meant.

 

[Enfieldnut53]

It's a pretty standard Type 3 P53 made for the civilian market. The names are those of the various makers, an mentioned earlier. Although the lock is marked 'TOWER' this was just a Birmingham tradition and there are no 'inspectors stamps' to be seen. The hammer does not bear the Enfield patterning around the head either. Ther is no 'V.R' under the crown as per the civilian variety.

The butt plate fit is always debatable since much time - and effort - has been expended on the wood - the most likely part of the rifle to be on the ground. I have one Liege example where the butt is considerably shorter than the standard with the badly distorted plate rarely flush with the wood. It may well have been shortened to fit! If it is of British origin, it will have civilian proof marks on the barrel to the left of the breech like this:

View attachment 440522
That shows the barrel at least was proofed before leaving the factory. No military P53 has these unless is was 'sold out of service'. Belgian made barrels and rifles have different proof marks. If no British barrels were available, they would occasionally use imported Belgian ones assembled to a British stock and lock in Birmingham. Quite often, the makers name is on the top of the barrel too.

The butt plate is not short...it hangs off the wood at the bottom, and I have read many articles that stated many of the confederate used guns had this poor fitment issue....hurry up and ship it syndrome....

 

[redbob]

Welcome to the group from middle Alabama, it is good to have you join us and I believe that your questions are well on the way to being answered.

 

[UCVRelics]

The butt plate is not short...it hangs off the wood at the bottom, and I have read many articles that stated many of the confederate used guns had this poor fitment issue....hurry up and ship it syndrome....

The 24 means it was a .58 cal so not a CS import and the butt plate think is not even close.