What is this? Old rifle

FilipB

Cadet
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Hello,

I’m writing from Europe and in advance I would like to apologize for my poor english :smile:

Few years ago during holidays I accidentally bought an old rifle on a flea market in Oklahoma. I paid about $150.
Due to my poor knowledge I am not able to identify this item.
I was obssesed with civil war history since I was a small kid and it would be a nice surprise if the rifle would be connected with the seccesion war events.

I would be greatful for any help!
Filip

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I think that your carbine started out as a Muster 1809 Prussian, flintlock, smoothbore, infantry musket manufactured at the arsenal in Suhl in 1831. At some point, it was the 59th musket assigned to the [8th Company?], 19th Prussian Infantry Regiment. It was subsequently converted to percussion ignition as a M1809/39 UM musket. Large numbers of the M1809/39 UM Prussian muskets were imported to America during the Civil War, and were used by both the Federal and Confederate Armies. At some point, your musket was further transformed by being shortened to carbine length [two barrel bands vice its original three band configuration] and its rear sight was removed. Whether this was done by the Confederates for issue to a cavalry trooper, or done post-war to make it into a fowling piece, I don't know.

Since you are in Europe, you may be able to find a copy of Hans-Dieter Gotz's book Militärgewehre und Pistolen der deutschen Staaten 1800-1870 in a library. The book provides a good general discussion of the military, muzzleloading small arms of the German speaking world during and prior to the American Civil War.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
Welcome, enjoy. Love the tiger wood stock. It is not US made. Trying to figure out what is under the crown marking.
I don't think it's a tiger striped maple stock. The tiger stripes are too evenly spaced, of even width and they are all vertical. I suspect the stock is probably beech wood since it's a Prussian made weapon, and someone painted the tiger stipes on it.
 
Welcome to the Forum.
Do my eyes deceive me or do I see traces of old gold paint on the metal? Gold paint can be associated with GAR halls as soldiers aged and had little interest in keeping their momentoes polished.
 
Welcome to the forums from the host of the Stonewall Jackson Forum and another antique gun enthusiast!
 
I don't think it's a tiger striped maple stock. The tiger stripes are too evenly spaced, of even width and they are all vertical. I suspect the stock is probably beech wood since it's a Prussian made weapon, and someone painted the tiger stipes on it.
Actually, they weren't painted on. A rag or rope was wrapped around the stock and set on fire which would color the wood.
 
Actually, they weren't painted on. A rag or rope was wrapped around the stock and set on fire which would color the wood.
I haven't seen stipes added that way to stocks; ramrods yes. I would worry that setting the rags on fire would char the stock on sharp edges.
 
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They vary in size because they're actually parts of different "sets." The four Confederates appeared around the time of the Centennial in the 1960's - I believe the Grant did too, but was part of a different series. Lincoln is obviously not the same scale as the others and not exactly a "proper" Civil War subject. McCormack was probably better-known for decanters featuring Western subjects, among which were Daniel Boone and/or Davy Crockett; Lewis and Clark; Wild Bill Hickock; Calamity Jane; Wyatt Earp; Doc Holliday; Buffalo Bill and likely many others. I've owned the Stonewall Jackson above for decades and more recently my old friend @1863surgeon has ordered Grant and the Confederates on Ebay.

it would be a nice surprise if the rifle would be connected with the seccesion war events.
From what I've read, the Union purchased almost 150,000 of these muskets for use in the war. I don't think they were issued to any regiments in the east. But some of the regiments under General Grant used them. The 10th Michigan Infantry used them, also they were used in the battles of Shiloh and Fort Donelson.
 
Would guess it's been around nation wise based on quantity of markings. Imagine the story it could tell if it could talk.......cool piece.

Am curious in the first photo does anyone recognize the marking stamp in front of the hammer, above the faded lettering?
 
Hi! Sorry for late response!
First of all, thank you for all the information, suggestions and tips.
After reading your posts I took even bigger interest in the rifle. As for „tiger lines”: to me they seem to be wood texture. Gilding though I’m not sure - I can see leftover in the area of lock. I understand from what you’re saying that it’s impossible to examine whether the arms could have been used during civil war. In my opinion, if „19 IR 59. 8C” meens 19th prussian infantry regiment, 59th rifle, 8th Company” than 8C should be written as 8K (from german - not Companie but Kompanie). Is it possible that this sign is connected with Union or Confederate army?
 
In my opinion, if „19 IR 59. 8C” meens 19th prussian infantry regiment, 59th rifle, 8th Company” than 8C should be written as 8K (from german - not Companie but Kompanie). Is it possible that this sign is connected with Union or Confederate army?

The Federal and Confederate Armies didn't mark shoulder arms with unit markings, while the Germanic armies generally did, which takes me back to the Prussian Army. But, I understand your point about "C" vice "K", which is why I put a question mark after my comment.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
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