Old cavalry item

[North Georgia]

I have an old what I believe to be a civil war cavalry sword that my grandfather found sometime around 1920 in a house he was working on. When he died ages ago, it ended up with men and forgotten. recently found it and tried to clean it up a bit. It has some makings on the hilt that could identify what outfit it was with. As you can see, it has some strike over marking, but the clear one is I. 10. It also has that marking on the top of the guard, over what looks like 5 X or 5T, can't make it out. On the scabbard, on the end, it is stamped D 40. I did not post a picture because it did not show up well, but in the right light it is clear. The blade is marked U.S. 1864 A.G.M on one side and what looks like Roby Chelmsford, Mass on the other side. Any information would be appreciated.

 

[JackADriscoll]

We need bigger photos. Be careful cleaning it. Gently if at all

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Yes, I was going to say - stop cleaning it.

We need full-length pictures, measurements, everything.

 

[Kurtlg]

It is an 1860 light cavalry sabre made by C. Roby. There was one offered by the Horse Soldier that you can view if you Google it.

 

[scooter748driver]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.

Please post pics as requested, and I agree, don't clean it.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy. On the guard it was 57 with multiple 7's stamped over it and 10 with 4's stamped over it. on grip below butt was 57 with a C stamped over it to my eyes.

 

[R. Porter]

Not having seen the whole sword, I can only make guesses; although I can only make guesses even if I see the whole sword. In the first image the grip appears to have ridges formed by carved wood under the leather rather than a smooth piece of wood wrapped by cord and then covered as would be seen in an imported German made model 1840. The ridges are wide as on a grip of a model 1860. The knuckle bow near the pommel supports the idea of a model 1860 hilt because of its shape. We can't see the blade which may be a model 1860 blade, but might also be a model 1840 or transitional blade. To me, the number 57 stamped on the pommel and knuckle bow represent an attempt to keep those parts together after the hilt was removed from the blade. The I 10 on the knuckle bow and pommel may represent a second removal from a blade. It could be argued that the I 10 was a rack number for company I, but why would you need it on both the pommel and the knuckle bow? Why wouldn't you put the rack number on the quillon where it would be more noticeable? I would expect the numbers to be stamped at an arsenal while the sword or parts were being repaired or cleaned. A later antique dealer would probably not have so many swords on hand that he would need to stamp parts to keep track of them.

My disclaimer is that I'm not an expert. It might be possible to suggest the sword maker if the rest of the sword is clearly illustrated.

 

[North Georgia]

Not having seen the whole sword, I can only make guesses; although I can only make guesses even if I see the whole sword. In the first image the grip appears to have ridges formed by carved wood under the leather rather than a smooth piece of wood wrapped by cord and then covered as would be seen in an imported German made model 1840. The ridges are wide as on a grip of a model 1860. The knuckle bow near the pommel supports the idea of a model 1860 hilt because of its shape. We can't see the blade which may be a model 1860 blade, but might also be a model 1840 or transitional blade. To me, the number 57 stamped on the pommel and knuckle bow represent an attempt to keep those parts together after the hilt was removed from the blade. The I 10 on the knuckle bow and pommel may represent a second removal from a blade. It could be argued that the I 10 was a rack number for company I, but why would you need it on both the pommel and the knuckle bow? Why wouldn't you put the rack number on the quillon where it would be more noticeable? I would expect the numbers to be stamped at an arsenal while the sword or parts were being repaired or cleaned. A later antique dealer would probably not have so many swords on hand that he would need to stamp parts to keep track of them.

My disclaimer is that I'm not an expert. It might be possible to suggest the sword maker if the rest of the sword is clearly illustrat

As I have mentioned, the sword was found, sometime before 1920, by my grandfather, so was never in the possession of a dealer. I do know, from my grandmother, that he used it some capacity in the Knights of Columbus. Anyway, getting good pictures is not easy given the lighting situation, but here are a couple of pictures of it and the scabbard. It would be pretty impossible to take pictures of the markings on the blade, but I have represented them correctly in the first post. The cleaning I did was to get the accumulated rust off the scabbard. Sometime in the past the handle was painted black because I guess the covering was gone.

 

[TLHS]

As I have mentioned, the sword was found, sometime before 1920, by my grandfather, so was never in the possession of a dealer. I do know, from my grandmother, that he used it some capacity in the Knights of Columbus. Anyway, getting good pictures is not easy given the lighting situation, but here are a couple of pictures of it and the scabbard. It would be pretty impossible to take pictures of the markings on the blade, but I have represented them correctly in the first post. The cleaning I did was to get the accumulated rust off the scabbard. Sometime in the past the handle was painted black because I guess the covering was gone.

View attachment 522346

View attachment 522349

You did a nice job on cleaning the scabbard.
As has been mentioned before, it is a very nice example of a Model 1860 light cavalry sabre. I would think the 20th century braided sword knot is probably indictive of your Granddad's participation in the Knights of Columbus.

 

[R. Porter]

As I have mentioned, the sword was found, sometime before 1920, by my grandfather, so was never in the possession of a dealer. I do know, from my grandmother, that he used it some capacity in the Knights of Columbus. Anyway, getting good pictures is not easy given the lighting situation, but here are a couple of pictures of it and the scabbard. It would be pretty impossible to take pictures of the markings on the blade, but I have represented them correctly in the first post. The cleaning I did was to get the accumulated rust off the scabbard. Sometime in the past the handle was painted black because I guess the covering was gone.

View attachment 522346

View attachment 522349

There were dealers in business between the end of the Civil War and the 1920's when your grandfather found the sword. I gather that you don't know the sword's history during that time. However, after seeing the whole sword I might be able to add an interesting observation from its war service. The turn down of the quillon is a common modification made by cavalry troopers after they were issued a sword. It has been suggested this was done to reduce the impact of the sword guard on the hand between the thumb and forefinger when the blade forcefully hits its target during a cut. Another observation concerns the bent outer branch of the sword guard. I have been told that this type of damage occurs when a horse falls and rolls over on the sword guard. Based on these two observations, it would appear that your sword had an active career during the war.

 

[Bud1863]

There were dealers in business between the end of the Civil War and the 1920's when your grandfather found the sword. I gather that you don't know the sword's history during that time. However, after seeing the whole sword I might be able to add an interesting observation from its war service. The turn down of the quillon is a common modification made by cavalry troopers after they were issued a sword. It has been suggested this was done to reduce the impact of the sword guard on the hand between the thumb and forefinger when the blade forcefully hits its target during a cut. Another observation concerns the bent outer branch of the sword guard. I have been told that this type of damage occurs when a horse falls and rolls over on the sword guard. Based on these two observations, it would appear that your sword had an active career during the war.

Agree with R. Porter about the evidence of your saber having seen active service. Another indicator, which is not visible in your photos, is the scabbard drag. The trooper would unhook the saber from his belt when he dismounted and it would drag on the ground. The flatter the drag, the more service your saber likely saw.

 

[bayonet]

Agree with R. Porter about the evidence of your saber having seen active service. Another indicator, which is not visible in your photos, is the scabbard drag. The trooper would unhook the saber from his belt when he dismounted and it would drag on the ground. The flatter the drag, the more service your saber likely saw.

View attachment 522971

Or he lost his horse by what ever means had had to walk the rest of the war! I have 2 M1860 sabers dated 1859, one the drag is well worn the other hardly at all. Guess that's why they called it a drag.