Grant Not impressed with Grants performance

[Patrick H]

I will admit from the get-go that I have only scanned the first page of this thread. I have no Freaking idea what is contained in the next 35 screens. All that having been said, I will say this much more: Grant got the job done. It might not have been pretty (what was?) But Grant got the job done. I think it's self evident that, from Vicksburg to Appomatox Court House, Grant proved himself able to get the job done.

 

[contestedground]

I will admit from the get-go that I have only scanned the first page of this thread. I have no Freaking idea what is contained in the next 35 screens. All that having been said, I will say this much more: Grant got the job done. It might not have been pretty (what was?) But Grant got the job done. I think it's self evident that, from Vicksburg to Appomatox Court House, Grant proved himself able to get the job done.

But he could have done more. Or so I am told.

 

[Bee]

But he could have done more. Or so I am told.

Lots of experts 'round here. I don't know why I bother reading: all the biographies that I read are apparently missing "crucial" information about Grant.

 

[contestedground]

Bobrick's documentation speaks for itself. Go read the book yourself and make up your own mind.

In this case, his documentation's another secondary source that renders Rawle's name incorrectly. In fact, Bobrick essentially paraphrases his source, nothing more. It's as if he went to the library to write a high school term paper. There's no original research concerning the point in question.

This isn't helping his reputation as a scholar.

 

[contestedground]

Lots of experts 'round here. I don't know why I bother reading: all the biographies that I read are apparently missing "crucial" information about Grant.

We just don't know what that crucial information is. Perhaps the experts can share that with us.

 

[JerseyBart]

Grant still locked down all three land theaters and defeated Lee, right?
Right.
Okay. I'm still impressed.

 

[Bee]

Grant still locked down all three land theaters and defeated Lee, right?
Right.
Okay. I'm still impressed.

Me, too. Especially interesting is that Grant's critics are often Lee's #1 fans, and since Lee came in second, there is always an unfair reason why. Go figure!

 

[contestedground]

Me, too. Especially interesting is that Grant's critics are often Lee's #1 fans, and since Lee came in second, there is always an unfair reason why. Go figure!

Except when they are McClellan fans, Rosecrans fans, or Thomas fans. They coulda been a contendar!

 

[Greywolf]

I think Grant did a fabulous job, exactly what Lincoln and the Union needed.

 

[Patrick H]

Grant still locked down all three land theaters and defeated Lee, right?
Right.
Okay. I'm still impressed.

Me, too.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Grant wasted thousands of his men's lives in foolish frontal assaults, and sometimes left his wounded to die on the battlefield because he was too proud to admit he'd been defeated and thus didn't want to follow the custom of the losing commander sending a flag of truce to ask for time to retrieve the wounded and bury the dead. As an Army vet, my blood starts to boil when I read about such shameful, immoral behavior.

And that differs from Lee at Malvern Hill and Gettysburg how? Other than at Gettysburg he left wounded behind so he could take the supplies he had looted back South with him?

Grant played favorites and knowingly sent false reports to Washington at the expense of many lives and needless delay in ending the war. He outright fabricated some battle accounts. He smeared Thomas and covered-up Sherman's bungling because he liked Sherman and didn't like Thomas. He put Sherman in charge of the Atlanta campaign when Sherman was the obvious choice, not only by seniority but by proven ability. If Grant had had his way at the Battle of the Chattanooga, he might very well have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, and then he lied about the battle in his reports in order to cover for Sherman and denigrate Thomas.

Utter nonsense.

As for Grant's drinking, until now I had not paid much attention to the issue, but after reading Bobrick's discussion on the matter, I see that this is another case where pro-Republican revisionists have tried to sweep the truth under the rug. The evidence that Grant had a drinking problem throughout the war is considerable and comes from a variety of sources (see Bobrick, Master of War, pp. 223-225). A member of Grant's own staff, Dr. E. D. Kittoe, admitted the truth after the war. Or, just read the letter that Grant's chief of staff, General Rawlins, sent Grant in June 1863 (Bobrick, p. 224).

So your beloved Robert E. Lee, Braxton Bragg, Joe Johnston, John Hood, Simon Buckner, and John Pemberton were all beaten by a slobbering drunk? Is that your claim? If so then that doesn't say much about them then does it?

 

[KeyserSoze]

If you want to understand what a disgraceful scumbag Grant could be, I recommend reading two books:

Are they as unbiased and impartial about Grant as you are? Just curious.

Ron Chernow's biography of Grant is due out this fall. I'll be very interested to read your review of that. If you read it. Which I doubt.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Are they as unbiased and impartial about Grant as you are? Just curious.

Ron Chernow's biography of Grant is due out this fall. I'll be very interested to read your review of that. If you read it. Which I doubt.

I got an advance copy and I'm part way through it. Its a bit of a hagiography, little Grant being a wonderful boy and young man. I'm on Hardscrabble farm right now.

 

[Patrick H]

And that differs from Lee at Malvern Hill and Gettysburg how? Other than at Gettysburg he left wounded behind so he could take the supplies he had looted back South with him?



Utter nonsense.



So your beloved Robert E. Lee, Braxton Bragg, Joe Johnston, John Hood, Simon Buckner, and John Pemberton were all beaten by a slobbering drunk? Is that your claim? If so then that doesn't say much about them then does it?

Let's find out what he was drinking. I want some of it. My view of Grant hasn't changed in the last few screens of responses. I said it wasn't always pretty, but he got the job done. ....and he did.

 

[KeyserSoze]

I got an advance copy and I'm part way through it. Its a bit of a hagiography, little Grant being a wonderful boy and young man. I'm on Hardscrabble farm right now.

(*sigh*) I have to wait until October.

 

[Bee]

Its a bit of a hagiography, little Grant being a wonderful boy and young man. I

What's yer problem? Grant was perfect in all ways! *Just kidding*

One of the many reasons I liked the Prof. Simpson book is that it does include warts and all.

 

[Drew]

All outstanding quotes, but none of them answer my question. Did he ever win a battle where he didn't have overwhelming advantages?

Without reading 37 pages, I will bet lunch money this question has not been answered.

At least not in the infirmative.

 

[BillO]

Without reading 37 pages, I will bet lunch money this question has not been answered.

At least not in the infirmative.

Timing and political backing are quite handy.

 

[KeyserSoze]

All outstanding quotes, but none of them answer my question. Did he ever win a battle where he didn't have overwhelming advantages?

Define "overwhelming advantage". Did he have "overwhelming advantage" at Fort Henry or Fort Donelson or was it a case of inept Confederate leadership? Did he have "overwhelming advantage" at Shiloh when he took the best that Beauregard and Johnson could throw at him and wound up beating them? Did he have "overwhelming advantage" at Vicksburg when he maneuvered Pemberton into a trap where he could force them into a seige? Did he have "overwhelming advantage" during the Overland Campaign when he kept forcing Lee to react to him rather than take the initiative? Why is it so hard to accept that it was the man and not necessarily the numbers?

 

[contestedground]

I got an advance copy and I'm part way through it. Its a bit of a hagiography, little Grant being a wonderful boy and young man. I'm on Hardscrabble farm right now.

Any different than what's already out there?