North Carolina

[leftyhunter]

After Appomattox, the Confederate people should have continued the fight for independence with an IRA type resistance.

Let's ask the Mods to compare and contrast the IRA to the Confedracy.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

Let's ask the Mods to compare and contrast the IRA to the Confedracy.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

If you want to discuss IRA style resistance then we have to take a look at the IRA and what they fought for and what period of time are you referring to since the IRA had different time periods of fighting plus times of inactivity.
Not understanding how an insurgency can preserve slavery perhaps you can articulate.
Leftyhunter

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Going back to @Ole Miss, and what I was reading just last night, in Sam Watkins' book and what I've read in almost any diary from either side by those who survived the war, is this: "I then look and glorious war in all its splendor. I hear the shout and charge, the boom of artillery and the rattle of small arms. I see gaily-dressed officers charging backwards and forwards upon their mettled war horses, clothed in the panoply of war. I see victory and conquest upon flying banners. I see our arms triumph in every battle.

And, O, my friends, I see another scene. I see broken homes and broken hearts. I see war in all its desolation. I see a country ruined and impoverished. I see a nation disfranchised and maltreated. I see a commonwealth forced to pay dishonest and fraudulent bonds that were issued to crush that people. I see sychopants likcing the boots of the country's oppressor. I see other and many wrong perpetrated upon a conquered people. "

War always brings this and Sam talks (and others talk) about the brutality, the desertions that they no longer blame their fellow soldiers for doing (especially in the South), etc. In fact, after they learn Joe Johnston was removed and Hood appointed, 5 soldiers on picket with Sam remove all their weapons, haversacks, guns, gun wrenches and wipers (he's that precise), say "I won't be needing these anymore) cross the river and disappear. Sam is positive they went over the river and took the oath of allegiance.

They knew Franklin was going to be the end and a disaster. They all just wanted to go home and were hanging onto hoping there would be some sort of peace negotiations.

And without mentioning the name of certain modernish organizations - I had a very close female friend live through the bombing of a certain organization in a pub. She was somehow the only one left standing. If you could see THAT desolation and the effect on her and I worked with her for 13 years, you would not promote guerrilla techniques because it never ends. Sadly, it is still the gift that seems to go on giving as evidenced sometimes in these pages.

 

[CSA Today]

If you want to discuss IRA style resistance then we have to take a look at the IRA and what they fought for and what period of time are you referring to since the IRA had different time periods of fighting plus times of inactivity.
Not understanding how an insurgency can preserve slavery perhaps you can articulate.
Leftyhunter

Perhaps it would help your understanding if you understood the Confederate people fought for independence.

"The unanimity and the desperation of our resistance… clearly show our struggle, to have been for that right of self-government…"
General E. Porter Alexander from his memoirs

 

[leftyhunter]

Perhaps it would help your understanding if you understood the Confederate people fought for independence.

"The unanimity and the desperation of our resistance… clearly show our struggle, to have been for that right of self-government…"
General E. Porter Alexander from his memoirs

The supporters of the Confedracy fought for one reason and one reason only and that was to preserve and expand slavery. There was no serious movement for Southern political independence post 1865.
Alexander is wrong the Southern whites had self rule in their states in the Antebellum era and after 1876 denied Southeners of color the right to participate in the political procces.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

The supporters of the Confedracy fought for one reason and one reason only and that was to preserve and expand slavery. There was no serious movement for Southern political independence post 1865.
Alexander is wrong the Southern whites had self rule in their states in the Antebellum era and after 1876 denied Southeners of color the right to participate in the political procces.
Leftyhunter

Apparently, you aren't one of those people who claim the South ran the country until 1860 since there was no new slave state admitted to the union after 1845 unless you count West Virginia in 1863. As for the preservation of slavery perhaps we can both agree Lincoln was a liar not to be trusted

 

[leftyhunter]

Apparently, you aren't one of those people who claim the South ran the country until 1860 since there was no new slave state admitted to the union after 1845 unless you count West Virginia in 1863. As for the preservation of slavery perhaps we can both agree Lincoln was a liar not to be trusted

That has nothing to do with my argument. The reasons why states seceded is well articulated in the Ordinances of Secession.
Getting back to @atlantis OP it just didn't make sense for countinued resistance after Apoamatox since there was no reason to continue to fight. Better to establish peace and have modified slavery called convict leasing which is what happened post ACW.
Leftyhunter

 

[Bruce Vail]

The curious thing is that Davis wants to go to the South West. The Confederacy's Golden Mecca. Goes to show the importance of the South West over Slavery. He obviously had visions of Empire, sugar plums were still dancing in his head. Expansion to the South West was a huge part of it. Southern TRR and all the rest. The Civil War was fought in the East, but it was over the West.

Didn't I read somewhere that when Davis was captured he was on his way to Florida in hopes for a ship to England, where he would lead a government in exile?

 

[damYankee]

After Appomattox, the Confederate people should have continued the fight for independence with an IRA type resistance.

Isn't that what the Knights of the Golden Circle, later the KKK were?
Along with outlaw gangs that plundered murdered and robbed for the next 15 years in Kansas and Missouri and the Midwest?

 

[uaskme]

Didn't I read somewhere that when Davis was captured he was on his way to Florida in hopes for a ship to England, where he would lead a government in exile?

Either was a possibility. The last remaining Confederate Army was in the Trans West.

 

[CSA Today]

The supporters of the Confedracy fought for one reason and one reason only and that was to preserve and expand slavery. There was no serious movement for Southern political independence post 1865.
Alexander is wrong the Southern whites had self rule in their states in the Antebellum era and after 1876 denied Southeners of color the right to participate in the political procces.
Leftyhunter

So Lincoln provoked a war to end slavery? He and his regime were the only ones threatening slavery in the CSA.


"The same popular pressures that forced political parties to embrace the doctrine of **** demanded and sanctioned the social and economic repression of the Negro population. Racial segregation or exclusion thus haunted the northern Negro in his attempts to use public conveyances, to attend schools, or to sit in theaters, churches, and lecture halls. But even the more subtle forms of twentieth-century racial discrimination had their antecedents in the anti bellum North: residential restrictions, exclusion from resorts and certain restaurants, confinement to menial employments, and restricted cemeteries. The justification for such discrimination in the North differed little from that used to defend slavery in the South: Negroes, it was held, constituted a depraved and inferior race which must be kept in its proper place in a white man's society."
Leon Litwack's North Of Slavery, Preface, p. viii.

 

[CSA Today]

Isn't that what the Knights of the Golden Circle, later the KKK were?
Along with outlaw gangs that plundered murdered and robbed for the next 15 years in Kansas and Missouri and the Midwest?

It would have been more effective had mayhem taken place in the northwest. As for the KKK, the midwest had pretty much taken the over by the 1920s.

 

[uaskme]

Isn't that what the Knights of the Golden Circle, later the KKK were?
Along with outlaw gangs that plundered murdered and robbed for the next 15 years in Kansas and Missouri and the Midwest?

The Gangs that Murdered and Robbed Yankee's and Yankee controlled Assets as in the Railroads were seeking retribution. When I first started studying this, I though Quantrill, Youngers and James boys were just rogues. Now, I can see they were Patriots. The Souths Crime was being Southern. In the end, Unionist and secessionist were treated the Same. War and Reconstruction. There were Southerners who lived in the Midwest. You don't think they caught He'll during all this?

 

[CSA Today]

That has nothing to do with my argument. The reasons why states seceded is well articulated in the Ordinances of Secession.
Getting back to @atlantis OP it just didn't make sense for countinued resistance after Apoamatox since there was no reason to continue to fight. Better to establish peace and have modified slavery called convict leasing which is what happened post ACW.
Leftyhunter

Nah!

The Gangs that Murdered and Robbed Yankee's and Yankee controlled Assets as in the Railroads were seeking retribution. When I first started studying this, I though Quantrill, Youngers and James boys were just rogues. Now, I can see they were Patriots. The Souths Crime was being Southern. In the end, Unionist and secessionist were treated the Same. War and Reconstruction. There were Southerners who lived in the Midwest. You don't think they caught He'll during all this?

Amen.

 

[leftyhunter]

So Lincoln provoked a war to end slavery? He and his regime were the only ones threatening slavery in the CSA.


"The same popular pressures that forced political parties to embrace the doctrine of **** demanded and sanctioned the social and economic repression of the Negro population. Racial segregation or exclusion thus haunted the northern Negro in his attempts to use public conveyances, to attend schools, or to sit in theaters, churches, and lecture halls. But even the more subtle forms of twentieth-century racial discrimination had their antecedents in the anti bellum North: residential restrictions, exclusion from resorts and certain restaurants, confinement to menial employments, and restricted cemeteries. The justification for such discrimination in the North differed little from that used to defend slavery in the South: Negroes, it was held, constituted a depraved and inferior race which must be kept in its proper place in a white man's society."
Leon Litwack's North Of Slavery, Preface, p. viii.

That has nothing to do with this thread. The reason why it didn't make sense for Lee to continue resistance by attempting to link up with Johnston in North Carolina ( aside from the obvious it was impossible to do so) was there was no point in continuing a war on which the issue of slavery was already decided.
A continued guerrlla war would not benefit Southern whites. Post ACW Southern whites would wage a lie intensity war of terror to deny Southeners of color their Constitutional rights.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

The Gangs that Murdered and Robbed Yankee's and Yankee controlled Assets as in the Railroads were seeking retribution. When I first started studying this, I though Quantrill, Youngers and James boys were just rogues. Now, I can see they were Patriots. The Souths Crime was being Southern. In the end, Unionist and secessionist were treated the Same. War and Reconstruction. There were Southerners who lived in the Midwest. You don't think they caught He'll during all this?

That's an interesting interpretation of history. The James -Younger Gang was fighting for one reason only and that was to make money. After Frank James peacefully surrendered and Younger got out of prison they never attempted any effort to promote an independent Southern nation. They just eked out a living by promoting tourism in the case of Frank James or in the case of Cole Younger giving lectures where he bemoaned his life choices that resulted in a long prison sentence.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

That has nothing to do with this thread. The reason why it didn't make sense for Lee to continue resistance by attempting to link up with Johnston in North Carolina ( aside from the obvious it was impossible to do so) was there was no point in continuing a war on which the issue of slavery was already decided.
A continued guerrlla war would not benefit Southern whites. Post ACW Southern whites would wage a lie intensity war of terror to deny Southeners of color their Constitutional rights.
Leftyhunter

I suppose you think radical Radial Reconstruction benefitted the South?


"The same popular pressures that forced political parties to embrace the doctrine of **** demanded and sanctioned the social and economic repression of the Negro population. Racial segregation or exclusion thus haunted the northern Negro in his attempts to use public conveyances, to attend schools, or to sit in theaters, churches, and lecture halls. But even the more subtle forms of twentieth-century racial discrimination had their antecedents in the anti bellum North: residential restrictions, exclusion from resorts and certain restaurants, confinement to menial employments, and restricted cemeteries. The justification for such discrimination in the North differed little from that used to defend slavery in the South: Negroes, it was held, constituted a depraved and inferior race which must be kept in its proper place in a white man's society."

Leon Litwack's North Of Slavery, Preface, p. viii.

 

[leftyhunter]

I suppose you think radical Radial Reconstruction benefitted the South?


"The same popular pressures that forced political parties to embrace the doctrine of **** demanded and sanctioned the social and economic repression of the Negro population. Racial segregation or exclusion thus haunted the northern Negro in his attempts to use public conveyances, to attend schools, or to sit in theaters, churches, and lecture halls. But even the more subtle forms of twentieth-century racial discrimination had their antecedents in the anti bellum North: residential restrictions, exclusion from resorts and certain restaurants, confinement to menial employments, and restricted cemeteries. The justification for such discrimination in the North differed little from that used to defend slavery in the South: Negroes, it was held, constituted a depraved and inferior race which must be kept in its proper place in a white man's society."

Leon Litwack's North Of Slavery, Preface, p. viii.

That has nothing to do with why Led surrendered. That has nothing to do with why Southern whites no longer decided to fight for an independent Confederate nation.
If you want to start a separate thread about how people of color in the South were treated better post ACW vs in the North then start a new thread.
Leftyhunter

 

[uaskme]

That's an interesting interpretation of history. The James -Younger Gang as fighting for one reason only and that was to make money. After Frank James peacefully surrendered and Younger got out of prison they never attempted any effort to promote an independent Southern nation. They just eked out a living by promoting tourism in the case of Frank James or in the case of Cole Younger giving lectures where he bemoaned his life choices that resulted in a long prison sentence.
Leftyhunter
[/QUOTE

What did the Yankee do to their Families?

As Sherman said. The War was as much against Southern Citizens as Southern Armies. Federals depopulated a large section of MO. Sherman said they would repopulated Georgia at a latter date. He hauled off hundreds of Textile Mill Workers. Federals though all Southerners were Traitors by the end. War in MO had its own Objectives. Was Occupied all during the War. Payback time lasted for awhile.