Discussion North Carolina

Status
Not open for further replies.

atlantis

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
NC in April of 65 did not have to be the end of the line for the CSA. Johnston surrender was an unforced blunder. The lose of Va. while a serious blow freed up the confederacy to create a realistic center of gravity an a strategy to defend it.
April 65 there were around 105-115, 000 CS troops still in the field.
 

Lubliner

1st Lieutenant
Forum Host
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Location
Chattanooga, Tennessee
From what I have heard, there had been discussion about moving the army to the trans-Mississippi country and continuing the war, but it was nixed. Some eventually went on to Mexico, but by the time Johnston and Sherman met, Davis had fled, still hoping for more. Really, I don't see anyplace the war could be continued. The south had been trampled down completely, her borders shut up, and devastation was all around. Having to admit it was over is not easy, when no future can be seen. Struggle on until full annihilation or give up and pray for mercy. The south was subdued.
Lubliner.
 

Jamieva

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Location
Midlothian, VA
This will probably quickly stray into what if territory but how would you go about coalescing those 100k troops that are spread out all over the south, and have Union forces in between them all. Who is going to coordinate that when you don't know where the President, Cabinet or government even is.

When you factor in the poor condition of the railroad systems in the south, you realize that Johnston continuing to resist would have been throwing lives away.
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
NC in April of 65 did not have to be the end of the line for the CSA. Johnston surrender was an unforced blunder. The lose of Va. while a serious blow freed up the confederacy to create a realistic center of gravity an a strategy to defend it.
April 65 there were around 105-115, 000 CS troops still in the field.
What exactly is the point of continuing to fight after Apoamatox has the institution of slavery is effectively over? Once Ft.Fisher fell slavery was over because there was absolutely no way slave owners could sell their crops to Western Europe. With the increasingly effective Union Blockade it didn't pay to own slaves.
Leftyhunter
 

Bruce Vail

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
NC in April of 65 did not have to be the end of the line for the CSA. Johnston surrender was an unforced blunder. The lose of Va. while a serious blow freed up the confederacy to create a realistic center of gravity an a strategy to defend it.
April 65 there were around 105-115, 000 CS troops still in the field.

This is a weird fantasy. With large, well-equipped Union armies rampaging at will throughout the South, any further resistance would have been suicidal. Some guerilla activity based in Appalachian Mountain strongholds might have extended the war for a few months, but that would have been it.
 

atlantis

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
The new strategy could have included adopting the greenback to revive commerce and exploit northern corruption to secure supplies. There was no need for large scale offensive operations against US forces, just keeping a gov't intact with a small army to show the confederates were not defeated. It comes down to who can wait the other out.
 

NH Civil War Gal

Captain
* OFFICIAL *
CWT PRESENTER
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Not at the end with his cabinet abandoning him. I think the only person with the brain power to even be thinking of such a scheme would be Judah P Benjamin and he skedaddled to the U.K. and no JD was not a people person.
 

Eric Calistri

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
May 31, 2012
Location
Austin Texas
NC in April of 65 did not have to be the end of the line for the CSA. Johnston surrender was an unforced blunder. The lose of Va. while a serious blow freed up the confederacy to create a realistic center of gravity an a strategy to defend it.
April 65 there were around 105-115, 000 CS troops still in the field.

Have you studied Wilson's Raid at all? The future for the CSA after March/April 1865 was one of Federal Cavalry divisions going anywhere they wanted, doing anything they wanted. Forrest couldn't stop them, Davis couldn't elude them.

What's the upside, for the CSA, of 10,000+ cavalry men with repeating carbines roaming at will?

Grant's and Sherman's and cavalry were sure to join in without a CS surrender.
 
Last edited:

atlantis

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Have you studied Wilson's Raid at all? The future for the CSA after March/April 1865 was one of Federal Cavalry divisions going anywhere they wanted, doing anything they wanted. Forrest couldn't stop them, Davis couldn't elude them.

What's the upside, for the CSA, of 10,000+ cavalry men with repeating carbines roaming at will?

Grant's and Sherman's and cavalry were sure to join in without a CS surrender.
Other nations have fought long against worse odds to secure independence. To fold like they did was a slap in the face to every confederate who hadn't supported secession but accepted the decision and thus gave their loyalty to the CSA.
 

A. Roy

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Other nations have fought long against worse odds to secure independence. To fold like they did was a slap in the face to every confederate who hadn't supported secession but accepted the decision and thus gave their loyalty to the CSA.

Are we talking about what was honorable, or what was feasible?

Roy B.
 
Last edited:

Eric Calistri

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
May 31, 2012
Location
Austin Texas
Other nations have fought long against worse odds to secure independence. To fold like they did was a slap in the face to every confederate who hadn't supported secession but accepted the decision and thus gave their loyalty to the CSA.n I

Where is the upside to that? Sounds like more death and destruction for a worse result.
 

wausaubob

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Location
Denver, CO
Some core Confederate loyalists may have stayed with the army. But most men were going to go home to take care of their families. Under those circumstances, the US army was fully capable of rounding up the men who remained under arms and killing them all.
It had become nothing better than murder by April 1865 which is why so many men deserted and readily surrendered.
 

Jamieva

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Location
Midlothian, VA
The new strategy could have included adopting the greenback to revive commerce and exploit northern corruption to secure supplies. There was no need for large scale offensive operations against US forces, just keeping a gov't intact with a small army to show the confederates were not defeated. It comes down to who can wait the other out.

Who would adopt it? The Confederate Congress? The cabinet? Davis? They are all scattered and running. There's no way to draw in a comprehensive national strategy in April 1865.
 

A. Roy

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
NC in April of 65 did not have to be the end of the line for the CSA. Johnston surrender was an unforced blunder.

What do you mean when you say Johnston's surrender was a "blunder"? Seems to me the last few weeks leading up to his surrender were calculated to give up with the best terms possible for his men.

Roy B.
 

Ole Miss

Captain
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Regtl. Staff Shiloh 2020
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
North Mississippi
The new strategy could have included adopting the greenback to revive commerce and exploit northern corruption to secure supplies. There was no need for large scale offensive operations against US forces, just keeping a gov't intact with a small army to show the confederates were not defeated. It comes down to who can wait the other out.
Was this not Robert E. Lee's greatest concern? Lee stated his view of this topic:

"Suppose I should take your suggestion & order the army to disperse & make their way to their homes. The men would have no rations & they would be under no discipline. They are already demoralized by four years of war. They would have to plunder & rob to procure subsistence. The country would be full of lawless bands in every part, & a state of society would ensue from which it would take the country years to recover. Then the enemy's cavalry would pursue in the hopes of catching the principal officers & wherever they went there would be fresh rapine & destruction..."

I believe General Lee saw the situation correctly and took the approiate actions to prevent the type of warfare sugggested in the OP.
Regards
David
 

uaskme

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
SE Tennessee
The curious thing is that Davis wants to go to the South West. The Confederacy's Golden Mecca. Goes to show the importance of the South West over Slavery. He obviously had visions of Empire, sugar plums were still dancing in his head. Expansion to the South West was a huge part of it. Southern TRR and all the rest. The Civil War was fought in the East, but it was over the West.
 

Ole Miss

Captain
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Regtl. Staff Shiloh 2020
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
North Mississippi
After Appomattox, the Confederate people should have continued the fight for independence with an IRA type resistance.
After Lee there was no Confederacy! The individual Johnnie was exhausted, home sick, sick of war and just generally fought out! With no supplies, ammo or leadership the South was a like unto a rattlesnake with its head cut off in that it was dangerous but dead!

The United States had just endured a war which cost over 600,000 plus lives of men in the military and unknown civilian deaths and everyone was sick and tired of war and destruction. Their was no desire to resort to the guerrilla warfare already fought behind the lines, in border states and parts of the deep South.

Confederates knew they had been whipped and their dreams of a new nation were shattered and just wanted to get on with the rest of their lives!
Regards
David
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top