Non regulation US sword opinions help needed

[TNcollector]

I just saw this at a local antique mall. I know this sowed is modeled after a French design. Also it has a monogram on the pommel cap that got my attention. It has some sort of rock in the handle which I have never seen anything like I'm wondering if it could possibly be a filler for something else that was missing. Both sides of the blade are acid etched US with scrollwork. It is marked marked with Newark NJ I was trying to determine if it was a good deal or not cause it's not cheap they want $750 for the sword. As I also have my eye on a musket right now that is else where. I'm a young collector and don't know if the sword it a bargain or something that someone has doctored with that stone in the handle. Thanks so much for your time and opinions.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

IMHO, you are looking at a very scarce sword and well worth the price. I have found that most co-ops will give you at least 10% discount for cash.
J.

 

[TNcollector]

Thanks for your response Jobe. What do you think of the stone in the handle is that accurate? I couldn't find anything online similar for comparasion.

Thanks, Rob

 

[UCVRelics]

Very Nice presentation sword. This would have been his dress sword. The stone it correct as I have seen many with stones and other ornate decorations. Great Find. offer them 600 and see if the bite if not take the 10% and run.

 

[TNcollector]

Thanks UCV for clarifying about the stone that had really thrown me off. I couldn't find another one online with a hilt just like this one.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

This is a non-regulation M1850 Staff & Field Officer sword by the Newark, NJ firm of Henry Sauerbier. His swords are widely sought by collectors and usually command a premium over similar swords by other makers. Unfortunately this sword has a lot of condition problems, but could probably be improved with the right amount of TLC. The well known dealer The Horse Soldier sold a very similar sword, albeit in very much better condition, for $2250. It differed from the current saber primarily by having a carved mother-of-pearl insert where the current sword has a faceted stone. Here is the URL: http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/edged-weapons/swords/7416

 

[TNcollector]

Richard thanks for sharing. That's as similar as I've seen of a sword to this one. I wish the owner of the sword could be identified with the initials of the monogrammed pommel.

 

[TNcollector]

I went back and looked at the sword today. The scabbard is marked Ames so it doesn't go with the sword unfortunately. Also asked them about a ten percent discount for cash but they said the price was firm and then it would have ten percent sales tax on top of that. So I'm torn on what to do having a mismatched scabbard.

 

[UCVRelics]

I went back and looked at the sword today. The scabbard is marked Ames so it doesn't go with the sword unfortunately. Also asked them about a ten percent discount for cash but they said the price was firm and then it would have ten percent sales tax on top of that. So I'm torn on what to do having a mismatched scabbard.

That's a bummer. Most of the time the presentation inscription would have been on the top brass scabbard throat. If it could be Id'ed it would be worth it.

 

[TNcollector]

That's what I was hoping that it would have an inscription on the scabbard throat and it could be ID to a solider. I was kind of disappointed it wasn't.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

With a total sale price of $825, and a mismatched scabbard, you have just about reached reasonable limits. In my opinion, that is.
I agree that the missing scabbard probably had a presentation on the throat. I have a Naval sword in my own collection that most likely had a presentation inscription on the missing scabbard, too!
J.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

I'm not too surprised that the scabbard isn't original to the piece. I wondered about it when I saw the photos because it is leather and this type sword would normally have had a gilt brass-mounted, browned-steel scabbard. As a private purchase piece, however, the buyer could have specified leather, but it would have been unusual. (I'm fairly certain the scabbard is for a M1850 Foot Officer sword.)

10% sales tax? I'm glad I don't live in your state. Do you have an out-of-state friend who could order and take delivery for you? $825 for the sword in that condition without a scabbard is pushing it. I doubt the scabbard will be of much use to you. If it was in better condition, there are a lot of people with scabbard-less Ames M1850 Foot officer swords who might be willing to buy it for a couple-three hundred, which would bring the net cost of the sword down to a more attractive range. Given the deteriorated condition of the leather, however, and the fact it is completely broken into two, maybe more, parts, I wouldn't count on finding a buyer any time soon.

It is still a nice piece, but as Jobe Holiday indicated above, it is not exactly a bargain, but on the other hand, neither is it a total rip-off. You're the one who can actually handle it and evaluate its condition in person and decide if it is worth that much to you - that's what really matters. Good luck!

 

[TNcollector]

Thanks for your response Jobe and Richard. You have solidified what I was already thinking. Yes the state of Tennessee has a 9.75 percent sales tax but no income tax. I've got my eye on a musket right now so I'm thinking I will just save for it. If the sword was a bargain like I thought it might have been yesterday before I posted it here and learned what I have. Thanks for the help of everyone that has posted on this thread. Everyone here seems to be a wealth of knowledge on these old relics. Who knows if he still has the sword in a month he might be willing to work with me and make a deal

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

There is a good possibility he has it on consignment and the owner hasn't given him any wiggle-room. If so, you might want to give him a firm offer and ask him to relay it to the owner. That may be more effective after it has sat there unsold for a while.

 

[TNcollector]

I stop in there regularly. He said the owner of all the military stuff is particular he had been letting him give a up to a ten percent discount but he recently got upset after some one came in and bought ten Japanese swords of his for resale at auction. The owner said the dealer might soften up later but wasn't sure for now. Supposedly he has right around 250 swords in his collection

 

[Jobe Holiday]

If the owner sold the Japanese swords at his price, +/- discount, it doesn't matter what the purchaser does with them. Sending items to auction is a gamble at best!
J.

 

[TNcollector]

I agree Jobe the new owner ahould be able to do what he wants with the swords and auction is always a gamble