Edged Wpns Need help with 2 Knives

[stevoc130]

Hello have 2 possible Civil War Era knives I could use some help with info. Thanks!!

 

[tbuckley]

Nice knives, but they are not military issue which makes me believe that the CSA and US stamps were added much later in an attempt to enhance the value. That is just my opinion.
Welcome from eastern Ohio.

 

[zburkett]

I agree with tbuckley that the "CSA" at least is post war. The top knife "CSA" is an unusual configuration for the period. The bottom knife is correct for the period as an English import and as such the stamping could be correct. The problem is there were many knives produced and imported during the 1960s up through today and if I had to guess I would say that these knives are mid 20th century, not Civil War. Of course most collectors are concerned with anything marked "CSA" because the stamp adds a couple of zeros to the price. That said, they are very nice knives and at worst a nice addition to a collection. If I had one in my display I would be happy to show it but would say it was possibly post war.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Welcome from WNY

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[WJC]

Welcome and thanks for sharing these great knives! Looking forward to your views in our discussions! Enjoy!

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From the Heart Of Dixie. Both knives are post CW with spurious markings.

 

[byron ed]

Bury them and dig them up in a few years. You might get quite different assessments.

Apparently Edward Barnes & Sons (Sheffield) was a prolific maker of knives for the American market before the Civil War. The trademark used was U*S and they specialized in bowie knives. Edward Barnes was first listed as a pen and pocket knife maker in 1828. He was joined by his sons in 1845. Edward Barnes died in 1878 and his son Isaac ran the business until his death in 1885, at which time, it appears, that the company ceased existing.

So it's just as likely your knife was made in the 20 years leading up to or during the CW (1845-1865) as it was that it was made in the 20 years after the CW (1865-1885).

 

[stevoc130]

Thanks all- appreciate the input.

 

[zburkett]

Stevoc130, I've been thinking about your knives. If you can find someone who can spot real ivory, show them the US knife. If the handle scales are real ivory the knife might date back to the Civil War period. A knife made as a mid 20th Century reproduction is unlikely to have genuine ivory. I remember there is a way to spot the real stuff but I can't remember what it is.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome from South Florida and the Reenactors Forum

 

[UCVRelics]

Stevoc130, I've been thinking about your knives. If you can find someone who can spot real ivory, show them the US knife. If the handle scales are real ivory the knife might date back to the Civil War period. A knife made as a mid 20th Century reproduction is unlikely to have genuine ivory. I remember there is a way to spot the real stuff but I can't remember what it is.

The hot pin test. Heat a pin and if it goes into the piece its not ivory.

 

[zburkett]

Thanks UVC, I remembered the hot pin but could not remember what it was supposed to do.

 

[Lubliner]

Welcome from Tennessee. I love that ivory handled blade. Can you give the length of the blade, overall, and if the shank recesses into the handle at all? Thanks,
Lubliner.

 

[byron ed]

...If the handle scales are real ivory the knife might date back to the Civil War period. A knife made as a mid 20th Century reproduction is unlikely to have genuine ivory...

imho not necessary. By the stampings alone this EB&S knife is no repro. Whether the grips are ivory or not is a separate question. Being a factory type those could be antler or bone.

One way to look at it is that production perhaps didn't change much over 40 years. On a long-established technology item there was no need to re-tool if the knives were selling well as is. And not being a government contract, there were no pattern lots to start up or end with. It could well be a continual build, and sold during the remaining life of the firm.

That's just to say that you can boldly proclaim this a CW-type knife and no collector or hard-core reenactor can challenge that. It would be honest and appropriate to place this knife in a museum educational display of CW camp items, just as so many straight razors (also without provenance) are.

 

[111thNYSV]

I like that Edward Barnes blade you have there. Keep em' oiled up!

 

[zburkett]

Byron ed, Do you have the dates on EB&S?

 

[Patrick H]

Thanks for showing your knives and welcome from Missouri.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I showed these images to a very experienced CW relic dealer. He said that anything with CSA stamped into it is highly suspect. They almost never turn out to be genuine.

 

[byron ed]

Byron ed, Do you have the dates on EB&S?

I found those dates in a comment about EB&S knives on a collector forum. Apparently there's a kind of bible for English knife fans, written by a guy named Geoffrey Tweedale. He published one book on knives and another on manufacturers. The books are expensive but there are libraries in the U.S. that have copies available for inter-library loan through your local library.

knifemagazine.com/product/tweedales-directory-of-sheffield-cutlery-manufacturers-1740-2013-by-geoffrey-tweedale-2

btw do a google image search "Edward Barnes & Sons Sheffield" and several knives just like yours, called a "dirk" come up on auction sites