What is this? Need help identifying musket

[JLjr]

My thought is that unfortunately it's likely no museum would want it, since it's essentially a foreign gun with no real association with the U.S. An Austrian museum would probably look on it as a damaged and therefore undesirable example of a regulation gun.

The association with the U.S would be its use in the Civil War. I have read that several hundred thousand of these rifles were imported and used by both the North and the South.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

The association with the U.S would be its use in the Civil War. I have read that several hundred thousand of these rifles were imported and used by both the North and the South.

With respect, the fact that this rifle was altered to the Wanzl system pretty much eliminates this rifle as an example that was imported for use in the American Civil War. The Austrians did not buy back arms they had sold to Americans to alter them to the Wanzl system. Further, the rifle lacks the ramrod pipe that was added to American imports when the rifles were altered to accept a ramrod. Austrian riflemen carried a ramrod on their person rather than stored under the barrel of their rifles.

 

[CWH1234]

Might be best to keep it, Like hang it on a wall for some Decoration.

 

[JLjr]

With respect, the fact that this rifle was altered to the Wanzl system pretty much eliminates this rifle as an example that was imported for use in the American Civil War. The Austrians did not buy back arms they had sold to Americans to alter them to the Wanzl system. Further, the rifle lacks the ramrod pipe that was added to American imports when the rifles were altered to accept a ramrod. Austrian riflemen carried a ramrod on their person rather than stored under the barrel of their rifles.

Makes a person wonder how it would have gotten to the U.S.

 

[ikesdad]

Makes a person wonder how it would have gotten to the U.S.

Surplus dealers
Just look thru some reprints of old Sears catalogs.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Not to be disrespectful, but your Dornstutzen restoration probably has more value in the parts it has on it than anything else.
J.

 

[Seduzal]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just jump right in and enjoy.

 

[JLjr]

Thanks for all the input. It's nice just knowing what kind of rifle it is.

 

[Don Dixon]

There were over 450,000 Muster 1854 System Lorenz arms of various models imported by the Federal and Confederate armies during the Civil War. But, this wasn't one of them in its current form. It has no value to a museum or to a Civil War arms collector. The Liege African trade percussion conversions of Austrian military arms aren't U.S. Civil War guns any more, they aren't Austrian military arms any more, and I know of no collector interest in them as a category. Their only value is in the parts that might be salvaged from them [not the barrel in this case], or as a wall hanger.

One occasionally sees one advertised for sale as a Civil War gun. If the advertisement is by knowledgeable dealer it is fraud.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[USS ALASKA]

Welcome to CWT from the Railroads & Steam Locomotives and The Naval War forums!

https://civilwartalk.com/forums/railroads-steam-locomotives.203/

https://civilwartalk.com/forums/the-naval-war.87/

Cheers and Enjoy!
USS ALASKA

 

[JLjr]

Would anyone happen to have a picture of the breech of one of the guns converted back to a muzzle loader? I ask because the line I see to the rear of the rear site is very fine and would have, I would think, been fantastic workmanship for forge welding in 1870 or whenever. In other words, would the weld (or screwed on section) been pretty apparent?

I'm somewhat disappointed, as I'm sure you can imagine, but not too much since it's first and foremost an heirloom to me, so it's alright. I would like to be sure before I give up on it. Your input has been invaluable.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Here is a link to another thread on an identical gun. It has less patina, so the Liege proof and seem are more visible. Still, the breeches were applied in a professional manner. Some were actually threaded on, while others were just brazed.

 

[JLjr]

Here is a link to another thread on an identical gun. It has less patina, so the Liege proof and seem are more visible. Still, the breeches were applied in a professional manner. Some were actually threaded on, while others were just brazed.

You must have forgotten the link.

 

[ikesdad]

I thought the same until I saw the word "link" in blue.
Click on that.

 

[JLjr]

I thought the same until I saw the word "link" in blue.
Click on that.

Very true. Thanks!

 

[JLjr]

Here is a link to another thread on an identical gun. It has less patina, so the Liege proof and seem are more visible. Still, the breeches were applied in a professional manner. Some were actually threaded on, while others were just brazed.

That was a great link, and right at the top was this photo of the faint line behind the rear sight I mentioned. So would this be where the weld was made?

 

[Don Dixon]

So would this be where the weld was made?

Yes [or the joint where the new breech section was screwed on]

 

[JLjr]

Yes [or the joint where the new breech section was screwed on]

Is there anyway to tell if it was screwed on or welded?

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Yes, it is where the two sections are joined. They are not welded together. The original barrel is made from soft forged Iron. The replacement breech section is made from a casting, most likely Malleable Cast Iron with questionable strength issues.
J.

 

[JLjr]

Yes, it is where the two sections are joined. They are not welded together. The original barrel is made from soft forged Iron. The replacement breech section is made from a casting, most likely Malleable Cast Iron with questionable strength issues.
J.

So it's screwed on? I will say that this, being done somewhere, as I understand it, in the 1870's, was really well done. The seam is so fine that I never noticed it until two days ago. I wish it had been a genuine Civil War rifle, but the history of the gun is fascinating to me. Thanks again for all the info.