What is this? Need help identifying musket

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JLjr

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Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Anyone have any idea as the the model of this musket? My dad died a couple of years ago and this was in his collection. He believed it to be Civil War vintage. I think he made the stock. It's a smoothbore with a rather unusual barrel that is six-sided until the final few inches when it becomes round. The rear sight adjusts up for range. I have attached some pics.

civil war muzzle loader 2.jpg


civil war muzzle loader 3.jpg


civil war muzzle loader 4.jpg


civil war muzzle loader 5.jpg


civil war muzzle loader 6.jpg


civil war muzzle loader.jpg
 
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JLjr

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Sep 23, 2019
This pic sure seems to back up your statement. The 860 stamp seems to be pretty good evidence.

civil war austrian lorenz pic.jpg
 
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It's an Austrian M1854 Jaegerstutzen. The stock looks to be a replacement.
Look for an ELG stamp on the barrel near the breech and any traces if a seam on the barrel. The hammer's face seems a little short to me, which may mean that it has been recovered to a muzzleloader after being altered to a M1854/67 Wanzl breechloader.
 
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JLjr

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My dad made the stock. I assume the original was gone by the time he got the gun. There should also be a strap about halfway down the barrel which is also missing. What do you make of the rear sight? I've seen one video of this gun which showed a similar rear sight for just a few seconds, but other than that I can't find anything on it. Can't imagine it was ever a breech loader, but maybe so. Thanks for the help! I want to donate this gun to a museum if that's feasible.

Is this the ELG stamp you referred to?

civil war muzzle loader elg marking.jpg
 
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tbuckley

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Welcome from eastern Ohio. I agree with Grayrock Volunteer. A reconverted Wanzl breechloader.
 

James N.

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JLjr

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The converted breech section was removed and a percussion breech replaced it. Not a candidate for live fire, in other words.
Yeah. I don't intend to fire it anyway. Thanks to everyone for the information. I never would have found it on my own.
 

Don Dixon

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Your firearm started life as a Muster 1854 System Lorenz Dornstutzen. The Dornstutzens were used to arm the NCOs and third rank men - Schutzen - in Austrian Army Jäger battalions. The Dornstutzen rear sight is quite distinctive. It was converted to Muster 1854/67 Wanzl "trapdoor" breech loader by the Austrian Army in approximately 1867/8 as a temporary expedient following the Seven Weeks War with Prussia in 1866. Someone in Liege, Belgium, then converted the Wanzl back into a percussion muzzleloader after it was sold out of service by the Austrians, for sale in the African "gas pipe" trade. See the Liege ELG proof mark. You should be very cautious about shooting it. In the conversions, the Wanzl breach section was removed and a purpose made percussion beach section was added. Some were threaded and screwed into the barrel. Others were welded onto the barrel. The later conversions are potential bombs. Just because it passed Belgian proof 100 or more years ago doesn’t mean it’s safe. IF IT IS THE LATTER TYPE IT IS TOTALLY UNSAFE TO SHOOT. I've commented in several other posts regarding these conversions of Muster 1854, Type I and II, infantry rifle muskets; Muster 1854 Jägerstutzen; and Muster 1854 Extra Corps carbines; which you may find by using the search engine.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
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JLjr

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After all these posts about the rifle being converted back to a muzzle loader, I looked carefully at the breech and can see a faint but very fine line that goes around the barrel about three inches in front of where the percussion cap goes on. Perhaps that is where the barrel was welded?
 

Don Dixon

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[QUOTE="JLjr, post: 2131003, member: 28444
I looked carefully at the breech and can see a faint but very fine line that goes around the barrel about three inches in front of where the percussion cap goes on. Perhaps that is where the barrel was welded?
[/QUOTE]

Your conclusion is correct. Welded or screwed on.
 
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JLjr

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Sep 23, 2019
You guys have any advice on how to go about donating this rifle to a museum? I am located in Mississippi. We have the U.S. Grant Pres. Library at Mississippi State University but they have no interest in the gun.
 

James N.

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You guys have any advice on how to go about donating this rifle to a museum? I am located in Mississippi. We have the U.S. Grant Pres. Library at Mississippi State University but they have no interest in the gun.
My thought is that unfortunately it's likely no museum would want it, since it's essentially a foreign gun with no real association with the U.S. An Austrian museum would probably look on it as a damaged and therefore undesirable example of a regulation gun.
 
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