Native Americans and the War

[ErnieMac]

Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West by Hampton Sides is primarily a biography of Carson, but goes into depth describing the 1863 campaign against the Navajo.

 

[donna]

A book I have written about on forum which is good one is "The Cherokee Nation In The Civil War" by Clarissa W. Confer.

 

[donna]

A couple of other books worth reading:

"The American Indian In The Civil War (1862-1865)" by Annie Heloise Abel

"The American Indian As Slaveholder and Secessionist" by Annie Heloise Abel

"Between Two Fires" by Laurence M. Hauptman

 

[diane]

Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West by Hampton Sides is primarily a biography of Carson, but goes into depth describing the 1863 campaign against the Navajo.

Kit Carson wasn't all that responsible for the annihilation but jeepers. The Navajos don't hold it against him too much, though. It was Gen Carleton giving the orders. And, they don't think poorly of Sherman, either. He got them out of Bosque Redondo. Around here, Henry Halleck is well thought of, even though he probably never knew any of the tribes up here existed except for their x's on some papers. Reddick McKee's not much thought of - he had the treaties that everybody had to sign! Halleck, though, defined who's territory was whose and so tribes were able to point out aboriginal land for federal recognition later. White-Indian relationships are so complex!

 

[RobertBruceFerguson]

I'm a little late for the party (what else is new) but just wanted to say I'm happy you've started this thread. It's a very interesting topic and one that I don't think gets the attention it deserves. I knew a bit about Stand Watie and even less about some of the slave-holding tribes in Louisiana siding with the CSA but that's it really. Keep it coming. Any recommendations for good reading material are appreciated.

Annie Heloise Abel's three-volume The Slave Holding Indians (can be found for free as PDFs), along with her other books, is nearly a definitive account. I haven't read all her works just yet, but it seems she has left out the eastern tribes' role during the War. Abel seemed to be aware of the eastern Indians, she mentioned the Mississippi Choctaw, as a footnote, in another book, or rather a 20 page paper, she wrote.

 

[John Winn]

Annie Heloise Abel's three-volume The Slave Holding Indians (can be found for free as PDFs), along with her other books, is nearly a definitive account. I haven't read all her works just yet, but it seems she has left out the eastern tribes' role during the War. Abel seemed to be aware of the eastern Indians, she mentioned the Mississippi Choctaw, as a footnote, in another book, or rather a 20 page paper, she wrote.

Thanks. I'll add that to the list (gonna have to buy a bigger house).

Thanks, too, to the others who offered suggestions.

 

[RobertBruceFerguson]

Fourteen members of the 1st Choctaw Battalion MS Cavalry were captured at Pontchatoula LA on 5/13/1863. These men were taken north by the way of Boston and New York. They were then sent to New Orleans, LA on 10/3/1863. These fourteen men (many only listed with one name) were as follows: Wigginton, Isaac F. Willis (died Corps d'Afrique USA General Hospital, New Orleans), James, Selvis, Wilson, Charley, Billy Willis (died Fort Columbus Hospital, New York), Williamson (died Fort Columbus Hospital, New York), Gibson (died St. Louis USA General Hospital, New Orleans), George Washington (died St. Louis USA General Hospital, New Orleans), Thomas Chubby, Jefferson (died St. Louis USA General Hospital, New Orleans), Silas Joshua (or Joshua Silas), and James Davis. I do have more info on these men from their service cards from fold3 but haven't been able to find more than that. Would love to know more about this group of soldiers! (The Wigginton man is of particular interest as he may be a collateral relative.)

Looks like something I wrote a few weeks ago. I certainly know of them ... have all their war records and then some.

 

[RobertBruceFerguson]

Recently, I have found one of the Mississippi Choctaw Battalion's white officer's photo (1st Lt. C. H. Doolittle) ... posted it on find-a-grave: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f...ty=1562&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=12140696&df=all&

 

[RobertBruceFerguson]

C. H. Doolittle, 1st Lt. Co. B. 1st Choctaw Battalion of Indians, ....

 

[donna]

Have any on forum seen the National Parks Publication "American Indians and the Civil War"? It came out in July 2013. I just wondered if worth ordering.

 

[ErnieMac]

Fourteen members of the 1st Choctaw Battalion MS Cavalry were captured at Pontchatoula LA on 5/13/1863. These men were taken north by the way of Boston and New York. They were then sent to New Orleans, LA on 10/3/1863. These fourteen men (many only listed with one name) were as follows: Wigginton, Isaac F. Willis (died Corps d'Afrique USA General Hospital, New Orleans), James, Selvis, Wilson, Charley, Billy Willis (died Fort Columbus Hospital, New York), Williamson (died Fort Columbus Hospital, New York), Gibson (died St. Louis USA General Hospital, New Orleans), George Washington (died St. Louis USA General Hospital, New Orleans), Thomas Chubby, Jefferson (died St. Louis USA General Hospital, New Orleans), Silas Joshua (or Joshua Silas), and James Davis. I do have more info on these men from their service cards from fold3 but haven't been able to find more than that. Would love to know more about this group of soldiers! (The Wigginton man is of particular interest as he may be a collateral relative.)

From the Newton County MS Historical and Genealogical Society http://www.nchgs.org/html/jack_amos_e-aht-onte-ube.html

"Jack Amos first enlisted in the 1st Choctaw Battalion, Mississippi Calvary under the command of Maj. J. W. Pearce. Recruitment and training camps were set up in Newton County and in Tangipahoa, Louisiana. During the course of the war, members of this unit, both White officers and Choctaw soldiers, were engaged with Union troops at Ponchatoula, Louisiana, and were taken captive. Some of the Choctaws and White officers escaped and returned to Newton County, others escaped into the Louisiana marshes and were never heard from again, while still others were captured, placed in the Jackson Barracks in New Orleans, and later paraded in New York City as prisoners-of-war. With many of their warriors lost or killed, the unit disbanded on May 8, 1863.

Jack Amos was among those who escaped the clash at Ponchatoula. All members still present, including Jack Amos, were transferred to Spanns Battalion of Independent Scouts under the command of Maj. S. C. Spann. Jack remained with his unit until its surrender in Meridian, Mississippi, on May 9, 1865. After the war, his commanding officer, S. G. Spann, wrote for Confederate Veterans Magazine a compelling story about the role of this Choctaw unit in the Confederacy and how this man--Jack Amos--made such an impact as an individual under his command."

Jack Amos

 

[ndnboy]

Nothing wrong with a thread on CSA Indians. At the same time we should keep in mind quite a few fought for the Union and per the books "The South Bitterly Divided" and "Civil War in the West" CSA Indians did plenty of wrong to Indians that did not want to fight for the CSA. Also many Indians defected to the Union an example is the Indians who joined the 3rd Indian Home guard. It is not a simple story. Also we should keep in mind that in no way did the CW keep both CSA forces and Union forces from killing Indians that they considered hostile.
Leftyhunter "

May 23,1863 Hard Rope- scout for the Union and a band of warriors caught 20 confederates crossing their territory they killed all but 2. official report "shot,tomahawked,scalped and decapitated." Sure didnt want to be caught going through Osage country!

 

[diane]

May 23,1863 Hard Rope- scout for the Union and a band of warriors caught 20 confederates crossing their territory they killed all but 2. official report "shot,tomahawked,scalped and decapitated." Sure didnt want to be caught going through Osage country!

The Osage were down by quite a few by the time of the Civil War, their land on the Missouri and Kansas border. They were anti-slavery, possibly because of work by Jesuits prior to the war, and all joined up with the Union. They had harbored John Brown for a short time after the Pottawatomie killings but he was too hot for them to keep!

 

[kbear]

Looks like something I wrote a few weeks ago. I certainly know of them ... have all their war records and then some.

I just started a conversation so we could talk in more detail about this unit without tying up the post. Look forward to hearing from you.

 

[CSA Today]

The Osage were down by quite a few by the time of the Civil War, their land on the Missouri and Kansas border. They were anti-slavery, possibly because of work by Jesuits prior to the war, and all joined up with the Union. They had harbored John Brown for a short time after the Pottawatomie killings but he was too hot for them to keep!

Black Dog II is perhaps the best remembered of the Confederate Osage.
"Black Dog II and some other Osage joined the 1st Osage Battalion, C.S.A. (Confederate States of America) around 1862, under Major Broke Arm. This military unit was composed of three companies. Black Dog served as a Captain of Company B. Military records are incomplete on their activities, but it is believed that this unit was involved at the battles of Pea Ridge and Prairie Grove, both in northwest Arkansas in 1862." Read more: http://amertribes.proboards.com/thread/594#ixzz2xJSrk32M

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

Thanks for posting those titles. I'm always looking for more information!

If it's still in print, " Storm In The Mountains " by Vernon Crow about the Thomas Legion

 

[leftyhunter]

As a former military man myself, I know there is a lot of waiting ... more so back then I'm confidant to say. I'm aware of a few major battles, like the one at Honey Springs, and the one you mentioned, Pea Ridge ... there must have been plenty of skirmishes which must entail a large percentage of the operations in I.T. and Indian units found east of the Mississippi. Effectiveness? Interesting point ... not sure how I would gauge/scale it ... but sounds like worthy goal to keep in mind while researching all these units.

Hi Robfer,
I guess I should define effectiveness better. Has we know the CW was a conventional war however with a big caveat in that there was quite a bit of guerrillia/insurgent/bushwacking /bandit what ever term you want to use warfare conducted by both sides. Indians served has insurgents for the CSA and counter-insurgents for the Union. A guerillia can only win against a conventional force if the conventional force leaves a territory or gives up its political goal because they get tired of fighting the guerrillia. That of course did not happen the Union forces fought the guerrillias to the very end.
Of the 12k Indians that you mention that fought for the CSA how many fought has in conventional units? If they did so how well did they do vs other CSA units? From what I gather from CSA Todays post the Hampton Legion had 400 Indians how many Indians total fought for the CSA and the Union in conventional units? Perhaps we will never know.
It has been said that most Indians did not want to fight in a conventional unit because it was not to their liking. I can understand that it sure was a fun way to fight. Obviously in later wars plenty of Indians fought in the US and Canadian Army and did just fine but I can see that it may of taken a while to adopt to a new cultures way of war.

The way I would judge effectiveness is did any CSA guerrilla band have the same effect more or less as that of say Mosby's ranger? Did an all Indian conventional unit serve say two years and they did has well has a white ( on both sides) or a USCT unit? I am not arguing that Indians did not fight has bravely has anybody else far from it but to be effective in the long run men must fight has a conventional unit . An example would be Brig Gen. Stan Waite. Yes he had some success in the IT but did he really help out Price when he invaded Mo in Sept 1864? It has been said that the war in the IT was side show of a side show. Is that a fair assessment?
Thanks
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

As a former military man myself, I know there is a lot of waiting ... more so back then I'm confidant to say. I'm aware of a few major battles, like the one at Honey Springs, and the one you mentioned, Pea Ridge ... there must have been plenty of skirmishes which must entail a large percentage of the operations in I.T. and Indian units found east of the Mississippi. Effectiveness? Interesting point ... not sure how I would gauge/scale it ... but sounds like worthy goal to keep in mind while researching all these units.

Hi Rober,
Here is a good example of effectiveness from"The Civil war in the American West" by Alvin Josephy Associate editor of Time Magazine and Chairmen of the Board of Trustees of the Smithsonian Institution National Museum of the American Indian. On pages 342 and 343 during the battle of Pea Ridge Pikes men (mostly Indians but also 200 Texans) bravely charged five companies of Union Cavalry and sent them fleeing and captured Union Artillery. All well and good but despite Pikes orders they don't continue the assault but hang around the captured artillery wooping it up. Unfortunately for them they gave Col. Osterhaus time to reorganize his forces and they fired artillery at the Indians who then fled into the trees and stayed there. Maybe there are other battles where Indians did better in conventional fighting excluding the Hampton Legion. My question is on the whole where Indians better at light cavalry hit and run vs heavy conventional fighting? Again I am not saying that Indians did not have guts just that maybe during the CW they played a somewhat minor role since they did not fight in the main has conventional troops. I really don't know that answer.
Thanks
Leftyhunter

 

[diane]

Black Dog II is perhaps the best remembered of the Confederate Osage.
"Black Dog II and some other Osage joined the 1st Osage Battalion, C.S.A. (Confederate States of America) around 1862, under Major Broke Arm. This military unit was composed of three companies. Black Dog served as a Captain of Company B. Military records are incomplete on their activities, but it is believed that this unit was involved at the battles of Pea Ridge and Prairie Grove, both in northwest Arkansas in 1862." Read more: http://amertribes.proboards.com/thread/594#ixzz2xJSrk32M

Every single tribe on a border, like the Osage, were split in some way. Some thought the US had betrayed them - and it sure did California Indians - and some thought the Confederates offered some interesting advantages. Representation was one - that was rather forward-looking. There were other reasons, too. Many Californios joined the Los Angeles Rifles, a Confederate outfit, because they hoped to get SoCal back, or at least a piece of it!

 

[ndnboy]

Hi Rober,
Here is a good example of effectiveness from"The Civil war in the American West" by Alvin Josephy Associate editor of Time Magazine and Chairmen of the Board of Trustees of the Smithsonian Institution National Museum of the American Indian. On pages 342 and 343 during the battle of Pea Ridge Pikes men (mostly Indians but also 200 Texans) bravely charged five companies of Union Cavalry and sent them fleeing and captured Union Artillery. All well and good but despite Pikes orders they don't continue the assault but hang around the captured artillery wooping it up. Unfortunately for them they gave Col. Osterhaus time to reorganize his forces and they fired artillery at the Indians who then fled into the trees and stayed there. Maybe there are other battles where Indians did better in conventional fighting excluding the Hampton Legion. My question is on the whole where Indians better at light cavalry hit and run vs heavy conventional fighting? Again I am not saying that Indians did not have guts just that maybe during the CW they played a somewhat minor role since they did not fight in the main has conventional troops. I really don't know that answer.
Thanks
Leftyhunter

Leftyhunter, totally agree with your thoughts on the tribes and their conventional fighting skills,off top of my head can remember sources talking about this very thing at PeaRidge and HoneySprings,but after training seems the Union Native troops did a much better job! Think it was all rather foriegn to them fighting in that mode as opposed to their traditional fighting ways,but would never question their bravery! just their skills,understanding and tactics.