McClellan's autobiography

[Belfoured]

Just like other personalities in other periods a good deal of the opinions concerning Little Mac's generalship are tainted by politics. It would be well to recall that he was not only a Democrat general serving a Republican administration that was full of Radicals he also became the Democratic candidate for President in 1864, so was set up as a target politically for those several years on both accounts. Although not a reliable basis on which to judge his military performance, I have always been favorably impressed by the opinion his men had of him and his care of and relations with them, also evident in Catton's various accounts.

I assume you're referring to opinions at the time.

 

[James N.]

I assume you're referring to opinions at the time.

And since, according to the politics of many of those involved. as we've seen all too recently, political opinions die hard now just as they did then.

 

[Belfoured]

And since, according to the politics of many of those involved. as we've seen all too recently, political opinions die hard now just as they did then.

Of course, I'm sure you'd also agree that criticism of McClellan by many students of the war has nothing to do with "political opinions" or the "politics of those involved". Same goes for criticism by students of the war regarding Grant, Lee, Jackson, and any number of other figures. It's entirely possible to base criticism of somebody who lived 150 years ago on facts, documents, etc.

 

[James N.]

Of course, I'm sure you'd also agree that criticism of McClellan by many students of the war has nothing to do with "political opinions" or the "politics of those involved". Same goes for criticism by students of the war regarding Grant, Lee, Jackson, and any number of other figures. It's entirely possible to base criticism of somebody who lived 150 years ago on facts, documents, etc.

Of course - just pointing out that it seems that once anyone has ever been a Presidential candidate he - or she! - seems forever to exist on an entirely different plane than even commanders of armies do and are held to different standards of behavior. (I'm reminded of this partly because I'm currently reading a study of Napoleon's Campaign in France, 1814; he's of course both Emperor and commanding general and certainly has a lot on his plate to consider!)

 

[Belfoured]

Of course - just pointing out that it seems that once anyone has ever been a Presidential candidate he - or she! - seems forever to exist on an entirely different plane than even commanders of armies do and are held to different standards of behavior. (I'm reminded of this partly because I'm currently reading a study of Napoleon's Campaign in France, 1814; he's of course both Emperor and commanding general and certainly has a lot on his plate to consider!)

Napoleon is a great example of somebody who in turn gives any reader "a lot on [their] plate to consider." McClellan, et al are easy by comparison.

 

[edfranksphd]

Try this: After Lee dispatched Early on June 12 he was no longer effectively part of the ANV and became an independent force. That also was essentially a raid. By offensive operation I mean something such as Lee pulled with his Army in June 1862. No longer possible when Grant crossed on June 14 and Lee ended up at Petersburg.

The invasion of Pennsylvania was ALSO essentially a raid, in fact many consider that Lee's priority for that movement was only that it be a raid that would allow the ANV to subsist off the PA countryside for the summer and give relief to N VA's denuded countryside. Early was never an independent command post Lynchburg, de facto or de jure. And, just for a little perspective, remember that the AOP never won a major battle in N VA during the entire war, not until the first week of April 1865, and that applies to the Yankee savior, GRANT - not a single major victory, at the level of army vs army. (BTW, i don't even remember the point at issue here...!)

 

[Belfoured]

The invasion of Pennsylvania was ALSO essentially a raid, in fact many consider that Lee's priority for that movement was only that it be a raid that would allow the ANV to subsist off the PA countryside for the summer and give relief to N VA's denuded countryside. Early was never an independent command post Lynchburg, de facto or de jure. And, just for a little perspective, remember that the AOP never won a major battle in N VA during the entire war, not until the first week of April 1865, and that applies to the Yankee savior, GRANT - not a single major victory, at the level of army vs army. (BTW, i don't even remember the point at issue here...!)

You seem to be getting a little worked up about Grant - not sure why, but I doubt going further will be productive, so I'll leave it with (1) Pennsylvania was a "raid" by the entire ANV, not a detached subunit and (2) Early ended up in command of the Army of the Shenandoah. Feel free to argue that's not an "independent command".

 

[James N.]

You seem to be getting a little worked up about Grant - not sure why, but I doubt going further will be productive, so I'll leave it with (1) Pennsylvania was a "raid" by the entire ANV, not a detached subunit and (2) Early ended up in command of the Army of the Shenandoah. Feel free to argue that's not an "independent command".

I'll also add that Early's army was decisively defeated three times by Sheridan's army at Winchester, Fisher's Hill, and Cedar Creek, all major victories to my way of thinking.

 

[wausaubob]

I think the poster might be referring to the sort of difference that exists between (1) the grievance-filled content of McClellan's introduction to Own Story about the "abuse" and "misrepresentations" heaped on him even though "twice at least, I saved the capital" and (2) the content of Grant's introduction to his Memoirs - "I have entered upon the task with the sincere desire to avoid doing injustice to any one, whether on the National or Confederate side, other than the unavoidable injustice of not making mention often where special mention is due." There's something about George ...

What stands out in contrasting the two men is the lack of commitment and organization in McClellan. Grant had that commitment even when he was dying. Grant's written product is as much about mortality and humility as it is about the US Civil War. And Grant had his son, a West Pointer, to help him.
Grant was suffering from cancer, and moved to the resort hotel in New York, yet his pages were protected. Grant had Clemens watching and editing. On the other hand we have to doubt that Ellen McClellan thought George's auto biography was a good idea.

 

[wausaubob]

With respect to George McClellan, I think of him as a brilliant man, whose every experience moved him further away from the lives and sentiments of average Americans. He was the ultimate European enthusiast and elitist.

 

[Belfoured]

I'll also add that Early's army was decisively defeated three times by Sheridan's army at Winchester, Fisher's Hill, and Cedar Creek, all major victories to my way of thinking.

I think Early and Lee would agree with your assessment.

 

[rbasin]

I've read about a third of it. He had an ego, but read Sherman's, Grant's, or Longstreet's and you'll see they had egos just as big.

 

[Belfoured]

I've read about a third of it. He had an ego, but read Sherman's, Grant's, or Longstreet's and you'll see they had egos just as big.

Grant, at least, did not lead with the whining, self-centered, "victim" rant that McClellan did (p. 27), culminating with the claim that "twice at least" "I saved the capital". There are egos and then there are egos.

 

[edfranksphd]

You seem to be getting a little worked up about Grant - not sure why, but I doubt going further will be productive, so I'll leave it with (1) Pennsylvania was a "raid" by the entire ANV, not a detached subunit and (2) Early ended up in command of the Army of the Shenandoah. Feel free to argue that's not an "independent command".

Feel free to wallow in your hubris. Clearly 'tis useless for me to attempt to debate w/one as blessed w/ur far greater intellect?!

 

[Belfoured]

Feel free to wallow in your hubris. Clearly 'tis useless for me to attempt to debate w/one as blessed w/ur far greater intellect?!

Now you're getting even more worked up about the discussion. Odd ....

 

[edfranksphd]

Now you're getting even more worked up about the discussion. Odd ....

Quite the opposite, methinks. We're done.

 

[Belfoured]

Quite the opposite, methinks. We're done.

I thought we were done two months ago. Let's try harder this time.