Longstreet Longstreet was right.

[wausaubob]

Wait what??!! Your comparing Apples to Oranges. The South keep fighting on regardless of losing a State Capitol(s). The North now experiencing an invasion might of felt different on losing a major State Capitol due to Northern attitude towards the War at this point. The Draft Riots in the North occurred the same month as Gettysburg in July 1863. Pressure for Meade to attack Lee would of been immense instead of it ending the other way around. "Supply" you say! Harrisburg would of been packed with Supplies of food and other essentials for Lee's Army. Was that not one of Lee's intention to invade the North to supply his Army in Pennsylvania packed rich of the needs for his Army. Plus force the North to negotiate a peace. Although Harrisburg was not Lee's goal it still may have led to the North seeking a peace settlement. But I guess we will never know, but we do know what did happen!

Harrisburg was a town of 13,000 people in 1860. It was not going to be able to substantially supply an army of 60,000 men, with their horses and mules.

 

[damYankee]

After Lee's surrender, the south needed someone to blame and Longstreet fit the bill perfectly. He had disagreed w/Lee about multiples items at Gettysburg, though we don't know the exact sort of communication that was to occur in that slice of time and if Lee had sought opinions. Also, Longstreet's post war actions set him up perfectly.

Longstreet had lost 3 children during the war and that had to mentally work on him, contributing to a blunt persona. Personally, Longstreet is one of my favorite generals of the Civil War. I think he was a soldier's soldier and though he would follow orders, in his position to Lee, he felt compelled to offer his opinions.

He became the lost cause scapegoat, Stuart started the ball rolling after Gettysburg to cover up his own malfeasance.

 

[wausaubob]

Getting to Harrisburg is like reaching the summit of Mt. Everest. Edmund Hillary's quote applies:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/183217.Edmund_Hillary

Just like Napoleon found out, getting to Moscow is the easier part. Getting back to Poland is kind of tricky.

 

[Tony Z]

He became the lost cause scapegoat, Stuart started the ball rolling after Gettysburg to cover up his own malfeasance.

Ya hit the nail squarely on the head!

 

[wausaubob]

He became the lost cause scapegoat, Stuart started the ball rolling after Gettysburg to cover up his own malfeasance.

Jackson was already dead. Stuart and Hill died in later battles. Dick Ewell wanted to forget the whole thing. Longstreet: Next time I fight I will make sure its necessary.

 

[Lubliner]

Jackson was already dead. Stuart and Hill died in later battles. Dick Ewell wanted to forget the whole thing. Longstreet: Next time I fight I will make sure its necessary.

Longstreet followed his own ideas into Tennessee.
Lubliner.

 

[damYankee]

Jackson was already dead. Stuart and Hill died in later battles. Dick Ewell wanted to forget the whole thing. Longstreet: Next time I fight I will make sure its necessary.

Stuart started blaming Longstreet before the dust settled, .why did you bring up Jackson?

 

[Pete Longstreet]

IMHO, Lee should have listened to Longstreet before leaving Richmond, and never advanced into Pennsylvania.

Good point. Prior to Gettysburg, Longstreet wanted to send troops west, to relieve the pressure on Vicksburg. After speaking with Lee on a northern invasion Longstreet later wrote:

"I then accepted his proposition to make a campaign into Pennsylvania, provided it should be offensive in strategy but defensive in tactics, forcing the Federal army to give us battle, when we were in strong position and ready to receive them. One mistake of the Confederacy was pitting force against force."

 

[atlantis]

Good point. Prior to Gettysburg, Longstreet wanted to send troops west, to relieve the pressure on Vicksburg. After speaking with Lee on a northern invasion Longstreet later wrote:

"I then accepted his proposition to make a campaign into Pennsylvania, provided it should be offensive in strategy but defensive in tactics, forcing the Federal army to give us battle, when we were in strong position and ready to receive them. One mistake of the Confederacy was pitting force against force."

Longstreet was correct IMHO about sending troops west.

 

[Pete Longstreet]

Longstreet was definitely right to argue with R.E. Lee at Gettysburg and Pickett was well within his rights to never forgive Lee for ordering the assault.

I agree. Longstreet and Lee had a cordial commander/subordinate relationship. Longstreet gave his opinion and Lee respected and preferred to hear what Longstreet advised, even if it differed from what he wanted. So Longstreet disagreeing with Lee was nothing new by the time they fought at Gettysburg.

Pickett never forgave Lee... but I think Pickett was blind at the time of the assault due to his chance for glory. When his division was decimated... he then realized what a mistake the charge was.

 

[Pete Longstreet]

Longstreet was correct IMHO about sending troops west.

Longstreet called Vicksburg and the west the "lungs of the Confederacy"

 

[bayonet]

Harrisburg was a town of 13,000 people in 1860. It was not going to be able to substantially supply an army of 60,000 men, with their horses and mules.

Harrisburg was a major supply depot for the Union with many railroads intersecting through there. Pennsylvania as the second biggest Union State was already keeping the Rebs well supplied with its abundance of plenty across its countryside. There would of been plenty there for Lee to stay a few days and force the Union to attack him.

 

[wausaubob]

Harrisburg was the 75th largest city in the US in 1860. Both Nashville and Memphis were more populous. But as noted there were railroad connections to Harrisburg, which would have permitted the evacuation of the population and the quartermaster supplies.

 

[Irishtom29]

Harrisburg was a major supply depot for the Union with many railroads intersecting through there. Pennsylvania as the second biggest Union State was already keeping the Rebs well supplied with its abundance of plenty across its countryside. There would of been plenty there for Lee to stay a few days and force the Union to attack him.

I assume Lee's army (and animals) staying in place to fight an intended battle and unable to forage would soon eat the town empty. Lee would be way out on a limb and unable to resupply ammunition. Maybe Lee knew what he was doing concentrating when and where he really did?

And how would Lee force Meade to attack him? Meade was very prudent during the campaign.

 

[Scott1967]

And how would Lee force Meade to attack him? Meade was very prudent during the campaign.

Meade was under intense pressure from Washington and being new to the job probably helped him , He did not have time to formulate a grand plan so to speak unlike the other commanders he was jonnie on the spot and was reacting to Lee's movements.

If Lee had managed to to extract his army and put himself between Meade and Washington their is no doubt in my mind Meade would have to attack , Washington itself is worthless but the damage done from a morale point of view and internationally would have been huge not to mention the amount of stores and horses and mules and feed that could be captured imho.

 

[W. Richardson]

I'll say Longstreet was closer to being right than Lee was to being wrong

 

[Pete Longstreet]

I'll say Longstreet was closer to being right than Lee was to being wrong

View attachment 396335

Well put. Great picture... beards and all.

 

[Lubliner]

As is always the case, it is a whole lot easier going than returning. With the gathering of supplies and foraging across the Pennsylvania countryside going up, maybe holding for a few days to a week in a well provided town, they would need to return. By then their track back is devastated and the supplies are not as readily available. Lee and Davis, in this agreement of invasion, sought a winning blow to bring Washington down, where evacuation could be done at leisure, instead of post-haste. (IMO).
Lubliner

 

[Lost Cause]

I remember reading the Letters Lee sent to Longstreet after his wounding in the battle of the Wilderness in them Lee states for Longstreet not to rush back until he feels ready , I cant help but feel did Lee really want him back at all.

Longstreet's right arm was essentially useless, and he was barely able to speak after his wounding. Upon his return to service in Oct. 1864, Lee restored Longstreet to command of the First Corps at Petersburg. Considering their closeness from this period through Appomattox, this contradicts the theory Lee did not want Longstreet back; especially with limited favorable replacement corps commanders Lee had available.

 

[GwilymT]

I assume Lee's army (and animals) staying in place to fight an intended battle and unable to forage would soon eat the town empty. Lee would be way out on a limb and unable to resupply ammunition. Maybe Lee knew what he was doing concentrating when and where he really did?

And how would Lee force Meade to attack him? Meade was very prudent during the campaign.

I tend toward this view. An army in enemy territory living off of the land will strip the country bare in a day. As already mentioned, Harrisburg had many rail and road networks, by the time the CSA got there, the stores would have been evacuated, gone. (We do know the citizens and city government were already engaged in this activity upon Ewell's approach) the idea that Lee could concentrate and wait doesn't conform with reality. An army deep in enemy territory with an extended supply line must keep moving a la Sherman to be able to live off of the land. Lee attacks on the 2nd & 3rd because his army is concentrated and his two options are attack or retreat. Waiting just isn't in the cards.

Given the circumstances retreat was the better option.