Lincoln Lincoln miscalculation......

[CSA Today]

So Southern newspapers writing to people who lived in the area were all wrong? You base this on the accounts of people reporting on the one state that was most radical and determined to leave the Union? Painting with a broad brush aren't you?

No, I based it on historian Richard N. Current account of Hulbert's report to Lincoln where, in part, it read: "I solemnly believe that the Seven States are irrevocably gone – except perhaps Texas and Louisiana, as to which I have no information."

 

[CSA Today]

It might be better put that Lincoln hoped for a peaceful restoration of the Union, but he was acutely aware of the possibility of war. Moreover, he knew that an outbreak of war would likely lead many of the border states to join the secessionists; that was a telling argument against precipitate action.

Strictly speaking, neither side 'wanted' war, but they each had something they did want - Union or independence - which was incompatible with the other and unamenable to compromise.

Well stated.

 

[W. Richardson]

"For the longest time"? He was only in office 6 weeks before the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter. We have no idea whether unionism would have risen up over "the longest time" because he wasn't given "the longest time". And that's the only reasonable explanation as to why the Confederates didn't give him "the longest time" in the first place.


Yes, Brass for the longest time….Lincoln was alive before he was elected and inaugurated, and though in no official capacity, he had an opinion.


1. "This is the same old trick by which the South breaks down every Northern victory".

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 334-335). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


2. "I say now, however, as I have all the while said, that on the territorial question—that is, the question of extending
slavery under the national auspices,—I am inflexible. I am for no compromise which assists or permits the extension
of the institution on soil owned by the nation. And any trick by which the nation is to acquire territory, and then allow some local authority to spread slavery over it, is as obnoxious as any other".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 183 Roy P. Basler


Lincoln looks at the South's threatening to secede as a "trick" not taking it serious.



3. When news of the Virginia result (In Virginia, the Lincoln ticket received just 1,929 votes out of 167,223 statewide— barely one percent) "reached him, Lincoln greeted it with the hope that it "represented a sentiment of love for the Union which would destroy the hopes of the ultra secessionists."

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 790-792). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


Lincoln "HOPES" that barely one percent represents a love of the Union sentiment!!! And would destroy the hopes of
secession………..That is really over estimating Union sentiment.



4. "In plain words, there is really no crisis, except an artificial one! What is there now to warrant the condition of affairs presented by our friends "over the river?" Take even their own view of the questions involved, and there is nothing to justify the course which they are now pursuing. I repeat it, then—there is no crisis, excepting such a one as may be gotten up at any time by designing politicians. My advice then, under such circumstances, is to keep cool. If the great American people will only keep their temper, on both sides of the line, the troubles will come to an end, and the question which now distracts the country will be settled just as surely as all other difficulties of like character which have originated in this government have been adjusted".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 211 Roy P. Basler


Again refusing to accept there is a crisis, that it is artificial (not real) or that he or the country are in any way to blame. In his opinion nothing to justify the course the South is now pursing. His advice is "keep cool, chill out, relax, do nothing" and this situation (slavery) which now distracts the country will be settled (by compromise ?) just as surely as all other difficulties of like character (slavery) which have originated (began) in this government have been adjusted (compromised?).
Past adjustments (compromises?) did not occur by sitting back and staying cool,or by denying they existed.



5. I think that there is no occasion for any excitement. The crisis, as it is called, is altogether an artificial crisis.

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 215 Roy P. Basler


Again in Lincoln's opinion there isn't anything to be excited about, and now even denying it is a crisis. Again stating it is not real (artificial). To him in his opinion it is. The South was gearing for war, they were serious. Lincoln's advice to the country…………Its not real, Relax, stay cool, this too shall pass.


My point, Brass is that Lincoln for awhile, and before he was in office, did not take the South seriously and tried to play it down in hopes that by ignoring it it would go away. He over estimated and relied on Union sentiment to win out over secession. Then again no other President, outside of maybe Washington faced a dilemma like Lincoln was having to handle. Lincoln may have handled it the best way possible, maybe not. As to the "fence reference" you look at it from the Pro-Northern view, I look at it and argue it from the Pro-Southern view. I try, when I can, to objectively look at a situation from both views.........when I can.

Respectfully,
Your Southern Antagonist,

William

 

[wilber6150]

No, I based it on historian Richard N. Current account of Hulbert's report to Lincoln where, in part, it read: "I solemnly believe that the Seven States are irrevocably gone – except perhaps Texas and Louisiana, as to which I have no information."

Does his book list a cite for that report, I'm not finding it listed in any search of Lincolns papers

 

[wilber6150]

"For the longest time"? He was only in office 6 weeks before the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter. We have no idea whether unionism would have risen up over "the longest time" because he wasn't given "the longest time". And that's the only reasonable explanation as to why the Confederates didn't give him "the longest time" in the first place.


Yes, Brass for the longest time….Lincoln was alive before he was elected and inaugurated, and though in no official capacity, he had an opinion.


1. "This is the same old trick by which the South breaks down every Northern victory".

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 334-335). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


2. "I say now, however, as I have all the while said, that on the territorial question—that is, the question of extending
slavery under the national auspices,—I am inflexible. I am for no compromise which assists or permits the extension
of the institution on soil owned by the nation. And any trick by which the nation is to acquire territory, and then allow some local authority to spread slavery over it, is as obnoxious as any other".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 183 Roy P. Basler


Lincoln looks at the South's threatening to secede as a "trick" not taking it serious.



3. When news of the Virginia result (In Virginia, the Lincoln ticket received just 1,929 votes out of 167,223 statewide— barely one percent) "reached him, Lincoln greeted it with the hope that it "represented a sentiment of love for the Union which would destroy the hopes of the ultra secessionists."

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 790-792). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


Lincoln "HOPES" that barely one percent represents a love of the Union sentiment!!! And would destroy the hopes of
secession………..That is really over estimating Union sentiment.



4. "In plain words, there is really no crisis, except an artificial one! What is there now to warrant the condition of affairs presented by our friends "over the river?" Take even their own view of the questions involved, and there is nothing to justify the course which they are now pursuing. I repeat it, then—there is no crisis, excepting such a one as may be gotten up at any time by designing politicians. My advice then, under such circumstances, is to keep cool. If the great American people will only keep their temper, on both sides of the line, the troubles will come to an end, and the question which now distracts the country will be settled just as surely as all other difficulties of like character which have originated in this government have been adjusted".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 211 Roy P. Basler


Again refusing to accept there is a crisis, that it is artificial (not real) or that he or the country are in any way to blame. In his opinion nothing to justify the course the South is now pursing. His advice is "keep cool, chill out, relax, do nothing" and this situation (slavery) which now distracts the country will be settled (by compromise ?) just as surely as all other difficulties of like character (slavery) which have originated (began) in this government have been adjusted (compromised?).
Past adjustments (compromises?) did not occur by sitting back and staying cool,or by denying they existed.



5. I think that there is no occasion for any excitement. The crisis, as it is called, is altogether an artificial crisis.

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 215 Roy P. Basler


Again in Lincoln's opinion there isn't anything to be excited about, and now even denying it is a crisis. Again stating it is not real (artificial). To him in his opinion it is. The South was gearing for war, they were serious. Lincoln's advice to the country…………Its not real, Relax, stay cool, this too shall pass.

My point, Brass is that Lincoln for awhile, and before he was in office, did not take the South seriously and tried to play it down in hopes that by ignoring it it would go away. He over estimated and relied on Union sentiment to win out over secession. Then again no other President, outside of maybe Washington faced a dilemma like Lincoln was having to handle. Lincoln may have handled it the best way possible, maybe not. As to the "fence reference" you look at it from the Pro-Northern view, I look at it and argue it from the Pro-Southern view. I try, when I can, to objectively look at a situation from both views.........when I can.

Respectfully,
Your Southern Antagonist,

William

You are misinterpeting what he is saying in some of his public speeches.. He took the situation serious but when he is talking about the crisis the country is facing he is stating that the only crisis that exists is the one that the secessionists are creating..In other words the crisis that the fireeaters were getting their statesmen worked up over was one of their own creation to suit their own political designs.. The Union or Lincoln had done nothing to the South to create any sort of crisis..He was shrewed enough to know that every word in his speeches would be examined by the people in the South, he had to downplay the situation to keep heads cool.. The fire eaters would try to turn any word of his against him so he had to be as pacifiying as possible

I repeat it, then---there is no crisis, excepting such a one as may be gotten up at any time by designing politicians.My advice, then, under such circumstances, is to keep cool. If the great American people will only keep their temper, on both sides of the line, the troubles will come to an end, and the question which now distracts the country will be settled just as surely as all other difficulties of like character which have originated in this government have been adjusted. Let the people on both sides keep their self-possession, and just as other clouds have cleared away in due time, so will this, and this great nation shall continue to prosper as heretofore. But, fellow citizens, I have spoken longer on this subject than I had intended in the outset---and I shall say no more at present.


or

The crisis , as it is called, is altogether an artificial crisis

. In all parts of the nation there are differences of opinion and politics. There are differences of opinion even here. You did not all vote for the person who now addresses you. What is happening now will not hurt those who are farther away from here. Have they not all their rights now as they ever have had? Do they not have their fugitive slaves returned now as ever? Have they not the same constitution that they have lived under for seventy odd years? Have they not a position as citizens of this common country, and have we any power to change that position? (Cries of ``No.'') What then is the matter with them? Why all this excitement? Why all these complaints? As I said before, this crisis is all artificial. It has no foundation in facts. It was not argued up, as the saying is, and cannot, therefore, be argued down. Let it alone and it will go down of itself (Laughter).

Again hes not saying that a crisis doesn't exist but that its one that was created by politicians in the South and would go away if they just let cooler heads prevail.

 

[NedBaldwin]

W,

I enjoyed what you wrote. I just have one comment: in point #3 I dont think it was the 1% for him that gave Lincoln hope for Virginia; it was the 44.6% for Bell (Constitutional Union Party).

"For the longest time"? He was only in office 6 weeks before the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter. We have no idea whether unionism would have risen up over "the longest time" because he wasn't given "the longest time". And that's the only reasonable explanation as to why the Confederates didn't give him "the longest time" in the first place.


Yes, Brass for the longest time….Lincoln was alive before he was elected and inaugurated, and though in no official capacity, he had an opinion.


1. "This is the same old trick by which the South breaks down every Northern victory".

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 334-335). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


2. "I say now, however, as I have all the while said, that on the territorial question—that is, the question of extending
slavery under the national auspices,—I am inflexible. I am for no compromise which assists or permits the extension
of the institution on soil owned by the nation. And any trick by which the nation is to acquire territory, and then allow some local authority to spread slavery over it, is as obnoxious as any other".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 183 Roy P. Basler


Lincoln looks at the South's threatening to secede as a "trick" not taking it serious.



3. When news of the Virginia result (In Virginia, the Lincoln ticket received just 1,929 votes out of 167,223 statewide— barely one percent) "reached him, Lincoln greeted it with the hope that it "represented a sentiment of love for the Union which would destroy the hopes of the ultra secessionists."

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 790-792). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


Lincoln "HOPES" that barely one percent represents a love of the Union sentiment!!! And would destroy the hopes of
secession………..That is really over estimating Union sentiment.



4. "In plain words, there is really no crisis, except an artificial one! What is there now to warrant the condition of affairs presented by our friends "over the river?" Take even their own view of the questions involved, and there is nothing to justify the course which they are now pursuing. I repeat it, then—there is no crisis, excepting such a one as may be gotten up at any time by designing politicians. My advice then, under such circumstances, is to keep cool. If the great American people will only keep their temper, on both sides of the line, the troubles will come to an end, and the question which now distracts the country will be settled just as surely as all other difficulties of like character which have originated in this government have been adjusted".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 211 Roy P. Basler


Again refusing to accept there is a crisis, that it is artificial (not real) or that he or the country are in any way to blame. In his opinion nothing to justify the course the South is now pursing. His advice is "keep cool, chill out, relax, do nothing" and this situation (slavery) which now distracts the country will be settled (by compromise ?) just as surely as all other difficulties of like character (slavery) which have originated (began) in this government have been adjusted (compromised?).
Past adjustments (compromises?) did not occur by sitting back and staying cool,or by denying they existed.



5. I think that there is no occasion for any excitement. The crisis, as it is called, is altogether an artificial crisis.

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 215 Roy P. Basler


Again in Lincoln's opinion there isn't anything to be excited about, and now even denying it is a crisis. Again stating it is not real (artificial). To him in his opinion it is. The South was gearing for war, they were serious. Lincoln's advice to the country…………Its not real, Relax, stay cool, this too shall pass.

My point, Brass is that Lincoln for awhile, and before he was in office, did not take the South seriously and tried to play it down in hopes that by ignoring it it would go away. He over estimated and relied on Union sentiment to win out over secession. Then again no other President, outside of maybe Washington faced a dilemma like Lincoln was having to handle. Lincoln may have handled it the best way possible, maybe not. As to the "fence reference" you look at it from the Pro-Northern view, I look at it and argue it from the Pro-Southern view. I try, when I can, to objectively look at a situation from both views.........when I can.

Respectfully,
Your Southern Antagonist,

William

 

[W. Richardson]

You are misinterpeting what he is saying in some of his public speeches.. He took the situation serious but when he is talking about the crisis the country is facing he is stating that the only crisis that exists is the one that the secessionists are creating..In other words the crisis that the fireeaters were getting their statesmen worked up over was one of their own creation to suit their own political designs.. The Union or Lincoln had done nothing to the South to create any sort of crisis..He was shrewed enough to know that every word in his speeches would be examined by the people in the South, he had to downplay the situation to keep heads cool.. The fire eaters would try to turn any word of his against him so he had to be as pacifiying as possible

I repeat it, then---there is no ← crisis, excepting such a one as may be gotten up at any time by designing politicians.[3] My advice, then, under such circumstances, is to keep cool. If the great American people will only keep their temper, on both sides of the line, the troubles will come to an end, and the question which now distracts the country will be settled just as surely as all other difficulties of like character which have originated in this government have been adjusted. Let the people on both sides keep their self-possession, and just as other clouds have cleared away in due time, so will this, and this great nation shall continue to prosper as heretofore. But, fellow citizens, I have spoken longer on this subject than I had intended in the outset---and I shall say no more at present.


or



Again hes not saying that a crisis doesn't exist but that its one that was created by politicians in the South and would go away if they just let cooler heads prevail.

I have not misinterpreted it. I do not view it through the Pro-Northern glasses. The response is always I have misinterpreted or took it out of context. I do thank you for your response.

Respectfully,

William

 

[W. Richardson]

W,

I enjoyed what you wrote. I just have one comment: in point #3 I dont think it was the 1% for him that gave Lincoln hope for Virginia; it was the 44.6% for Bell (Constitutional Union Party).

And that is a good point, one that could be correct. I had not looked at it that way.

Respectfully,

William

 

[NedBaldwin]

And that is a good point, one that could be correct. I had not looked at it that way.

Respectfully,

William

Here is the entire party platform for the Bell-Everett ticket:
http://history.furman.edu/~benson/docs/conuplat.htm
Resolved, That it is both the part of patriotism and of duty to recognize no political principle other than THE CONSTITUTION OF THE COUNTRY, THE UNION OF THE STATES, AND THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS, and that as representatives of the Constitutional Union men of the country in National Convention assembled, we hereby pledge ourselves to maintain, protect, and defend, separately and unitedly, these great principles of public liberty and national safety, against all enemies at home and abroad, believing that thereby peace may once more be restored to the country, the rights of the People and of the States reestablished, and the Government again placed in that condition, of justice, fraternity and equality, which under the example and Constitution of our fathers, has solemnly bound every citizen of the United States to maintain a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.


In Virginia, it got more vote that the Southern Democrat ticket.

 

[W. Richardson]

Here is the entire party platform for the Bell-Everett ticket:
Resolved, That it is both the part of patriotism and of duty to recognize no political principle other than THE CONSTITUTION OF THE COUNTRY, THE UNION OF THE STATES, AND THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS, and that as representatives of the Constitutional Union men of the country in National Convention assembled, we hereby pledge ourselves to maintain, protect, and defend, separately and unitedly, these great principles of public liberty and national safety, against all enemies at home and abroad, believing that thereby peace may once more be restored to the country, the rights of the People and of the States reestablished, and the Government again placed in that condition, of justice, fraternity and equality, which under the example and Constitution of our fathers, has solemnly bound every citizen of the United States to maintain a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.


In Virginia, it got more vote that the Southern Democrat ticket.

Based on this then I concur with you that Lincoln had to be basing his belief in Union Sentiment on the Constitutional Union Party vote. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I had not considered this point.

Respectfully,

William

 

[W. Richardson]

Ned,

Upon reflection on the Constitutional Union Party vote and percentage in each slave holding state you have convinced me that I have to re-adjust my belief that Lincoln had over estimated the Union sentiment in those states. Thank you for pointing this out to me as I had never considered the Constitutional Union Party vote as to what Lincoln was basing his belief in.

Thanks,

Respectfully,

William

 

[wilber6150]

I have not misinterpreted it. I do not view it through the Pro-Northern glasses. The response is always I have misinterpreted or took it out of context. I do thank you for your response.

Respectfully,

William

Well, when you are saying that Lincoln didn't think that the nation was facing a crisis and didn't take the threat of war serious then yes I do think you misinterpeted him and it has nothing to do with being pro-northern but upon research of his speeches in their entirety..As his actions certainly showed that he was walking a tight rope between war and peace..

 

[wilber6150]

I hope that, although we have some threatening National difficulties now---I hope that while these free institutions shall continue to be in the enjoyment of millions of free people of the United States, we will see repeated every four years what we now witness. [Applause.]

In a few short years, I and every other individual man who is now living will pass away. I hope that our national difficulties will also pass away, and I hope we shall see in the streets of Cincinnati---good old Cincinnati---for centuries to come, once every four years her people give such a reception as this to the constitutionally elected President of the whole United States.
Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio
February 12, 1861

For a man who chose his words with care to use the terms national difficulties twice and in conjunction with the term threatening shows that he was taking what was happening seriously..

 

[CSA Today]

Does his book list a cite for that report, I'm not finding it listed in any search of Lincolns papers

Chapter 3, Richard N. Current, Lincoln And The First Shot.

End note 1. Hurlburt to Lincoln, March 27, 1861, in the R.T.L. Collection; Official Records, ser. I, vol. I, pp.221-22, 282; Fox, Confidential Correspondence, I, 9-11; Doubleday, Reminiscences, p.134; Russell, Diary (Pratt ed.), pp.19-27, 73; Nicolay and Hay, Lincoln, III, 389-92; Bancroft, Seward, II,107; Nevins, Improvised War, pp.48-49.

 

[Ellsworth avenger]

Georgia was still Hi-Jacked!

 

[NedBaldwin]

Chapter 3, Richard N. Current, Lincoln And The First Shot.

End note 1. Hurlburt to Lincoln, March 27, 1861, in the R.T.L. Collection; Official Records, ser. I, vol. I, pp.221-22, 282; Fox, Confidential Correspondence, I, 9-11; Doubleday, Reminiscences, p.134; Russell, Diary (Pratt ed.), pp.19-27, 73; Nicolay and Hay, Lincoln, III, 389-92; Bancroft, Seward, II,107; Nevins, Improvised War, pp.48-49.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mal:@field(DOCID+@lit(d0838800))

 

[wilber6150]

Chapter 3, Richard N. Current, Lincoln And The First Shot.

End note 1. Hurlburt to Lincoln, March 27, 1861, in the R.T.L. Collection; Official Records, ser. I, vol. I, pp.221-22, 282; Fox, Confidential Correspondence, I, 9-11; Doubleday, Reminiscences, p.134; Russell, Diary (Pratt ed.), pp.19-27, 73; Nicolay and Hay, Lincoln, III, 389-92; Bancroft, Seward, II,107; Nevins, Improvised War, pp.48-49.

Thanks, I'll check it out...

 

[brass napoleon]

"For the longest time"? He was only in office 6 weeks before the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter. We have no idea whether unionism would have risen up over "the longest time" because he wasn't given "the longest time". And that's the only reasonable explanation as to why the Confederates didn't give him "the longest time" in the first place.


Yes, Brass for the longest time….Lincoln was alive before he was elected and inaugurated, and though in no official capacity, he had an opinion.


1. "This is the same old trick by which the South breaks down every Northern victory".

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 334-335). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


2. "I say now, however, as I have all the while said, that on the territorial question—that is, the question of extending
slavery under the national auspices,—I am inflexible. I am for no compromise which assists or permits the extension
of the institution on soil owned by the nation. And any trick by which the nation is to acquire territory, and then allow some local authority to spread slavery over it, is as obnoxious as any other".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 183 Roy P. Basler


Lincoln looks at the South's threatening to secede as a "trick" not taking it serious.



3. When news of the Virginia result (In Virginia, the Lincoln ticket received just 1,929 votes out of 167,223 statewide— barely one percent) "reached him, Lincoln greeted it with the hope that it "represented a sentiment of love for the Union which would destroy the hopes of the ultra secessionists."

Holzer, Harold (2008-10-21). Lincoln President-Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 (Kindle Locations 790-792). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.


Lincoln "HOPES" that barely one percent represents a love of the Union sentiment!!! And would destroy the hopes of
secession………..That is really over estimating Union sentiment.



4. "In plain words, there is really no crisis, except an artificial one! What is there now to warrant the condition of affairs presented by our friends "over the river?" Take even their own view of the questions involved, and there is nothing to justify the course which they are now pursuing. I repeat it, then—there is no crisis, excepting such a one as may be gotten up at any time by designing politicians. My advice then, under such circumstances, is to keep cool. If the great American people will only keep their temper, on both sides of the line, the troubles will come to an end, and the question which now distracts the country will be settled just as surely as all other difficulties of like character which have originated in this government have been adjusted".

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 211 Roy P. Basler


Again refusing to accept there is a crisis, that it is artificial (not real) or that he or the country are in any way to blame. In his opinion nothing to justify the course the South is now pursing. His advice is "keep cool, chill out, relax, do nothing" and this situation (slavery) which now distracts the country will be settled (by compromise ?) just as surely as all other difficulties of like character (slavery) which have originated (began) in this government have been adjusted (compromised?).
Past adjustments (compromises?) did not occur by sitting back and staying cool,or by denying they existed.



5. I think that there is no occasion for any excitement. The crisis, as it is called, is altogether an artificial crisis.

The Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 4 Page: 215 Roy P. Basler


Again in Lincoln's opinion there isn't anything to be excited about, and now even denying it is a crisis. Again stating it is not real (artificial). To him in his opinion it is. The South was gearing for war, they were serious. Lincoln's advice to the country…………Its not real, Relax, stay cool, this too shall pass.

My point, Brass is that Lincoln for awhile, and before he was in office, did not take the South seriously and tried to play it down in hopes that by ignoring it it would go away. He over estimated and relied on Union sentiment to win out over secession. Then again no other President, outside of maybe Washington faced a dilemma like Lincoln was having to handle. Lincoln may have handled it the best way possible, maybe not. As to the "fence reference" you look at it from the Pro-Northern view, I look at it and argue it from the Pro-Southern view. I try, when I can, to objectively look at a situation from both views.........when I can.

Respectfully,
Your Southern Antagonist,

William

On October 11, 1858, Jefferson Davis stood before a sympathetic audience in Boston (yes, that's Massachusetts) and denounced the Boston abolitionists led by William Lloyd Garrison who had been circulating a petition to have Massachusetts secede from the Union on account of slavery. Here's part of what he said:

"But we have heard it argued--have seen it published--a petition has been circulated for signers, announcing that there was an incompatibility between the sections; that the Union had been tried long enough, and that it had proved to be necessary to separate from those sections of the Union in which the curse of slavery existed. Ah! those modern saints, so much wiser than our fathers, have discovered an incompatibility requiring separation in those relations which existed when the Union was formed. They have found the remnants only of a diversity which existed when South Carolina sent her rice to Boston, and Maryland and Pennsylvania and New York brought in their funds for her relief.

They have found the remnants only; for from that day to this the difference between the people has been constantly decreasing, and the necessity for union which then arose in no small degree from the diversity of product, and soil and climate, has gone on increasing, both by the extension of our own territory and the introduction of new tropical products; so that whilst the difference between the people has diminished, the diversity in the products has increased, and that motive for union which your fathers found exists in a higher degree than it did when they resolved to be united.

Diversity there is of occupation, of habits, of education, of character. But it is not of that extreme kind which proves incompatibility, or even incongruity; for your Massachusetts man, when he comes to Mississippi, adopts our opinions and our institutions, and frequently becomes the most extreme southern man among us. [Great applause.] "

- Jefferson Davis, October 11, 1858

Source: http://jeffersondavis.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=80​

So no, it's not a Northern/Southern thing, unless you consider Jefferson Davis a Northerner.

 

[wilber6150]

Chapter 3, Richard N. Current, Lincoln And The First Shot.

End note 1. Hurlburt to Lincoln, March 27, 1861, in the R.T.L. Collection; Official Records, ser. I, vol. I, pp.221-22, 282; Fox, Confidential Correspondence, I, 9-11; Doubleday, Reminiscences, p.134; Russell, Diary (Pratt ed.), pp.19-27, 73; Nicolay and Hay, Lincoln, III, 389-92; Bancroft, Seward, II,107; Nevins, Improvised War, pp.48-49.

So as I thought Hurlburt is basing this conclusion only after visiting South Carolina which was the most radical and had the least amount of Union supporters and not the other seceeded states.. He also states this...

But it is equally true that there exists a large minority indefatigably active and reckless who desire to precipitate collision, inaugurate war & unite the Southern Confederacy by that means. These men dread the effect of time & trial upon their Institutions, they fear the pressure of Taxes & the burdens of Government & know well that there are causes of difference between the several States which will be obliterated by that common sympathy and common danger which war would produce.

Which is what has been posted on here but denied by people that they wanted to start a war to unite the Southern states.

 

[CSA Today]

So as I thought Hurlburt is basing this conclusion only after visiting South Carolina which was the most radical and had the least amount of Union supporters and not the other seceeded states.. He also states this...



Which is what has been posted on here but denied by people that they wanted to start a war to unite the Southern states.

Think what you like, but Current quotes Hurlbut as including in his report to Lincoln: "I solemnly believe that the Seven States are irrevocably gone – except perhaps Texas and Louisiana, as to which I have no information." The quotation marks are Current's, underlined for emphasis – me. page 74

If you have questions about Richard N. Current as a historian the below link may be helpful.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/us/richard-n-current-civil-war-historian-dies-at-100.html?_r=0

If you have questions about his book Lincoln and the Last Shot, You can find an inexpensive used copy at: http://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-First-Richard-Nelson-Current/dp/0881334987

If you have a question about Current's end note, it is on page 216.