Restricted Lincoln and Colonization

unionblue

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No we do not... We all know what racism is...

Lincoln was a racist. My goal as always is to wipe away the whitewash of history that been used in Lincoln's narrative...

"Wipe away the whitewash of history?"

If that equates to not wanting to waste time on another made-up cat fight or participate on a thread designed to simply cause attention and not instruct, you got it.

And just one question for all those jumping on the bandwagon.

How many slaves and freedmen did Lincoln FORCE to colonize?
 
Joined
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Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I do not argue that Lincoln treated black men humanly and respectively but he was a racist. He through the white race was superior to the black race and they could not live together. I will agree with his views of the black man were changing during the war as they fought for the union.



Many of those who oppose slavery expansion feared competition. They wanted the western lands for the white man and free labor and did not want to compete against the slave interest in land and labor. After the war, they did not want the free slaves to go west either competing for land... Look up Francis Blair Jr. he was the epidemy of this group that opposed slavery moving west... It was not about opposing slavery but the fear of competing against it that fuel the anti-expansion of slavery westward before the war.



True...



True...
As a white man, Lincoln had as much opportunity to have attempted to benefit directly from slavery as any other. But he saw that white men and the nation as a whole would be better off without it. He "feared" the expansion of slavery because of its disfiguring effects on American democracy, not because he personally feared competition from slave interests. Attempts to trivialize Lincoln's motives are misguided. They are a transparent attempt to provide a flimsy moral cover for a rebellion that sought to preserve and expand slavery.

We should all rejoice and celebrate that Lincoln was successful in preserving the Union and ending slavery, rather than trying to diminish his motives for doing so.
 
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OpnCoronet

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Feb 23, 2010
No we do not... We all know what racism is...
Lincoln was a racist. My goal as always is to wipe away the whitewash of history that been used in Lincoln's narrative...




I ask for your definition, because, your definition may not be the same as Lincoln or, even, Jefferson Davis.

I gather we can assume your definition, does not include you?
 

5fish

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Location
Central Florida
So, you have no evidence that Lincoln forced ANY slave or freedmen to colonize.

Forced? but he did entice some with fear to found a failed colony of Haiti...

From The New York Times Disunion, "The Île à Vache: From Hope to Disaster," by Phillip W. Magness, on 12 April 2013 -- Virginia’s massive Fortress Monroe, operating under Union control from the beginning of the war, played witness to an unusual sight on the morning of April 14, 1863. For some six days prior the Ocean Ranger lay at anchor in sight of the fort’s guns as a steady stream of food and supplies were carried aboard. The brig’s main cargo, however, consisted of passengers — specifically 453 recently freed African-Americans — about to set sail for a new life in Haiti.

And...

In a December 1862 plea for charity, one Northern newspaper remarked of the destitute condition: “although the Government supplies them with food, they are in want of other necessaries that sustain life. Winter is hard by, and they must have blankets and comfortable clothing, or they will perish and die to our utter shame.” A correspondent to Frederick Douglass’s newspaper similarly deplored “their treatment by the officers of the government,” which “as a rule, has been brutal and cruel in the extreme.” The contrabands, he continued, had “long been promised, but never had [received] protection from the abuses of rebel sympathizers, and reasonable encouragement and opportunity to get a living.”

It was under these circumstances that the Ocean Ranger set sail, and while its associated policy of black colonization provided a source of controversy and distrust within the African-American community, the arrival of the ship was evidently seen by many freedmen as a means to escape poor conditions and an uncertain future in the United States.


The rest of the story...
http://usslave.blogspot.com/2013/09/abraham-lincolns-failed-haitian.html
 

WJC

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It was under these circumstances that the Ocean Ranger set sail, and while its associated policy of black colonization provided a source of controversy and distrust within the African-American community, the arrival of the ship was evidently seen by many freedmen as a means to escape poor conditions and an uncertain future in the United States.
So contrary to what some have repeatedly said here, many Blacks agreed with the idea of Colonization.
 

5fish

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They are a transparent attempt to provide a flimsy moral cover for a rebellion that sought to preserve and expand slavery.

No, I try trying to preserve slavery or expand it. I am pointing out that many white people oppsition to westward expansion of slavery was out of fear to compete against it, not some great moral failing of slavery or threat to our ideals.

"feared" the expansion of slavery because of its disfiguring effects on American democracy, not because he personally feared competition from slave interests.

I agree but I bet only a few fall into this category...

I gather we can assume your definition, does not include you?

When it come to race relations I am lights years ahead of any 19th century American and many of today's Americans too...
 

WJC

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I am pointing out that many white people oppsition to westward expansion of slavery was out of fear to compete against it, not some great moral failing of slavery or threat to our ideals.
A lot of truth in that. As evidence, consider the exclusion laws.
Slavery and what to do about it was a far more complex issue than we sometimes assume. Which, of course, is why it took a terrible war for us to end it.
 

unionblue

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Forced? but he did entice some with fear to found a failed colony of Haiti...

From The New York Times Disunion, "The Île à Vache: From Hope to Disaster," by Phillip W. Magness, on 12 April 2013 -- Virginia’s massive Fortress Monroe, operating under Union control from the beginning of the war, played witness to an unusual sight on the morning of April 14, 1863. For some six days prior the Ocean Ranger lay at anchor in sight of the fort’s guns as a steady stream of food and supplies were carried aboard. The brig’s main cargo, however, consisted of passengers — specifically 453 recently freed African-Americans — about to set sail for a new life in Haiti.

And...

In a December 1862 plea for charity, one Northern newspaper remarked of the destitute condition: “although the Government supplies them with food, they are in want of other necessaries that sustain life. Winter is hard by, and they must have blankets and comfortable clothing, or they will perish and die to our utter shame.” A correspondent to Frederick Douglass’s newspaper similarly deplored “their treatment by the officers of the government,” which “as a rule, has been brutal and cruel in the extreme.” The contrabands, he continued, had “long been promised, but never had [received] protection from the abuses of rebel sympathizers, and reasonable encouragement and opportunity to get a living.”

It was under these circumstances that the Ocean Ranger set sail, and while its associated policy of black colonization provided a source of controversy and distrust within the African-American community, the arrival of the ship was evidently seen by many freedmen as a means to escape poor conditions and an uncertain future in the United States.


The rest of the story...
http://usslave.blogspot.com/2013/09/abraham-lincolns-failed-haitian.html

So, Lincoln did not force any slave or freedmen to colonize, is that correct?
 
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No, I try trying to preserve slavery or expand it. I am pointing out that many white people oppsition to westward expansion of slavery was out of fear to compete against it, not some great moral failing of slavery or threat to our ideals.



I agree but I bet only a few fall into this category...



When it come to race relations I am lights years ahead of any 19th century American and many of today's Americans too...
Forcing free men to compete against slaves IS a threat to our ideals AND a moral failing! And your minimization of Northern concern over slavery's impact on white democratic norms ignores very well documented and voluminous history.

As for your claim that you are "lightyears ahead" of anybody on anything, that's truly amazing.
 
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WJC

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You need to read up on Frank Blair Jr. of Missouri...
Thanks for your response and recommendation.
Specifically, what should I look for?
I am aware of his military service, his abolition, Free Soil and Colonization views.
 
Forced? but he did entice some with fear to found a failed colony of Haiti...

From The New York Times Disunion, "The Île à Vache: From Hope to Disaster," by Phillip W. Magness, on 12 April 2013 -- Virginia’s massive Fortress Monroe, operating under Union control from the beginning of the war, played witness to an unusual sight on the morning of April 14, 1863. For some six days prior the Ocean Ranger lay at anchor in sight of the fort’s guns as a steady stream of food and supplies were carried aboard. The brig’s main cargo, however, consisted of passengers — specifically 453 recently freed African-Americans — about to set sail for a new life in Haiti.

And...

In a December 1862 plea for charity, one Northern newspaper remarked of the destitute condition: “although the Government supplies them with food, they are in want of other necessaries that sustain life. Winter is hard by, and they must have blankets and comfortable clothing, or they will perish and die to our utter shame.” A correspondent to Frederick Douglass’s newspaper similarly deplored “their treatment by the officers of the government,” which “as a rule, has been brutal and cruel in the extreme.” The contrabands, he continued, had “long been promised, but never had [received] protection from the abuses of rebel sympathizers, and reasonable encouragement and opportunity to get a living.”

It was under these circumstances that the Ocean Ranger set sail, and while its associated policy of black colonization provided a source of controversy and distrust within the African-American community, the arrival of the ship was evidently seen by many freedmen as a means to escape poor conditions and an uncertain future in the United States.


The rest of the story...
http://usslave.blogspot.com/2013/09/abraham-lincolns-failed-haitian.html


During 1861 Frederick Douglass supported James Redpath, who was the General Agent of Emigration to Haiti, and his colonization efforts that led to more than a thousand Blacks from the US settling in that country during that year. Even Douglass's assistant editor from his newspaper, William J. Watkins, was one of Redpath's recruiters. By 1863, Frederick Douglass's interests in colonization changed and he was adamantly against it.

When Lincoln learned that Black colonists on Ile a Vache had been abandoned without support and that nearly 100 had died from disease, he ordered the United States Navy to bring back to the U. S. any of the Black colonists who wished to return:

CONFIDENTIAL. I WAR DEPARTMENT,
Washington City, February 8, 1864.
Brig. Gen. M. C. MEIGS, Quartermaster- General:
GENERAL: The following order has been made by the President:
Hon. EDWIN M. STANTON, Secretary of War:

SIR: You are directed to have a transport (either a steamer or sailing vessel as may be deemed proper by the Quartermaster-General) sent to the colored colony established by the United States at the island of Vache, on the coast of San Domingo, to bring back to this country such of the colonists there as desire to return. You will have the transport furnished with suitable supplies for that purpose, and detail an officer of the Quartermaster's Department who, under special instructions to be given, shall have charge of the business. The colonists will be brought to Washington, unless otherwise hereafter directed, and be employed and provided for at the camps for colored persons around that city. Those only will be brought from the island who desire to return, and their effects will be brought with them.
ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
O.R. Series III, Vol. IV, pg. 75

Lincoln's ordering their return was rather a strange, uncompelling act for someone, who according to you, was supposedly insistent on a national extirpation of all Blacks. All 368 surviving colonists returned to the U. S. on the Navy ship.
 
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uaskme

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There is a fundamental fallacy implicit in your opening post that if one believed in white racial superiority, one could not possibly have despised black slavery for either principled or moral reasons. Many whites who had little or no sympathy for African slaves despised slavery because of its corrosive effects on white democracy and it's insult to the dignity of free labor. Furthermore, believing that members of an inferior race should be treated humanely, or even that they should be sent somewhere else where they could be truly free, was not inconsistent with a belief that whites were superior. There is every reason to believe that Lincoln genuinely opposed slavery for principled reasons for his entire life.

Some, on the other hand, are anxious to obfuscate this critical point, because they wish to deprive those who opposed the spread of slavery of the moral high ground. People who understand American history will see through that ploy.
Edited.

How many Northerners pre War wanted Abolition? Do you have a source?
 
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