Lee's prewar reputation

[Dave Wilma]

At the beginning of the war Lee was recommended to head the Union armies and he was offered the job based on his reputation. How exactly did he get that reputation? What assignments and accomplishments placed him above other the other available officers? Was this reputation simply that shared by his contemporaries or was there some civilian energy energy at work? When appointed a general in the Confederate forces, others had larger and more significant commands so that earlier reputation only went so far.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I think primarily it was because he was known to Winfield Scott, who seems to have regarded Lee as a sort of protege.

 

[BillO]

Lee had an outstanding record from the Mexican war. His exploits would have made a great movie. He also made quite a name for himself by his engineering work on the Mississippi river.

 

[OpnCoronet]

Having friends in high places, Lee was considered for the job because of the entusiasm of Scott. Lee was little known outside the army and the Va. Tidewater oligarchy.

 

[Jamieva]

Scott knew him personally from his service in the Mexican War. Also he had done extensive engineering work on fortifcations on the Mississippi and atlantic coast as was mentioned earlier. It was Scott's decision to make so he recommended the soldier he knew best.

 

[Dave Wilma]

So, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. In this case Winfield Scott.

Did Lee have a similar champion in the Confederate government? Davis knew Lee from Mexico and from Davis's term as Secretary of War. What did Lee DO that impressed him?

George Meade was a good engineer, became a general, but wasn't offered the big command until two years into the war.

 

[diane]

I have to disagree a little with that. Scott wasn't just any general - he was, and still is, considered America's finest soldier. He served under every president from Jefferson to Lincoln and had more experience than just about anybody! Lee had done some remarkable work for the eastern coast defenses and on the upper Mississippi (maybe saving St Louis). Lee was Scott's tactical advisor during the Mexican War and was primarily responsible for several wins that made Scott's reputation even more illustrious than it already was. He positioned the guns at Veracruz, scouted, did intelligence gathering - all manner of impressive things. Cerro Gordo, Churubusco, Chapultepec, Molino del Rey were all battles Scott credited Lee for enabling him to win.

 

[Dave Wilma]

Lee was Scott's tactical advisor during the Mexican War and was primarily responsible for several wins that made Scott's reputation even more illustrious than it already was.

That said, being a hotshot company grade officer fifteen years before and being asked to head all U.S. forces is a big jump without something in between. Being a good engineer is not the same as being a good commander, although there are certainly skills in common. McClellan should have been a good pick too given his corporate experience (his work in Washington Territory as a surveyor was spotty).

 

[Nathanb1]

2nd Cavalry stint in Texas. Court Martials, chasing Indians and bandits........add that to the Mexican War stuff and you have something.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fle18

 

[diane]

That said, being a hotshot company grade officer fifteen years before and being asked to head all U.S. forces is a big jump without something in between. Being a good engineer is not the same as being a good commander, although there are certainly skills in common. McClellan should have been a good pick too given his corporate experience (his work in Washington Territory as a surveyor was spotty).

Well, we're not all that certain Lee was offered command of all the US forces. He didn't seem to think so - but he was sure it was something good! McClellan was pulled ahead very rapidly - maybe too rapidly - when he showed promise early and I would suppose Lee would have been pulled ahead as well. But Scott wasn't considering Lee because he was a good engineer or even because he was a good commander - he wanted this particular officer inside the Union tent. He thought he might be leading US forces, incidentally, despite his age and health issues. He wouldn't have been Scott if he didn't!

 

[rhp6033]

I think we are overlooking a couple of Lee's prewar assignments. One of his assignments was on the fortifications protecting New York harbor, which had him in the city for quite some time (a couple of years?) where he made social connections with society there and where he entertained just about every officer who transited through the city. Secondly, he was the Superintendent of West Point for several years, and in that capacity was known by the faculty and the various officers who transited through the acadamy on a yearly basis on the "Board of Examiners" who audited the progress of the cadets, recommended changes in curriculum, and gave final approval on the graduation of cadets. While a Superintendent at West Point, he belonged to more than one reading club, from which he had a much more detailed study of strategy and tactics than he did in any West Point classroom, and his fellow participants (mostly faculty, but some invited civilians and senior students) were able to judge his thought processes.

Most importantly, I've never heard of an officer saying anything about Lee which wasn't positive - at least, not before he resigned his commission. He had a reputation for honesty and an attention to detail which allowed him to present complete accountings of his transactions and perform his duties without complaint from his superiors or fellow officers.

 

[OpnCoronet]

Lee got to Davis through his family's fellow Tidewater oligarchy connections, who were determinede to get one of their own in command of Va.'s military forces and later who were mostly singing Lee's praises to their new Pres. from out West.

 

[BillO]

Lee got to Davis through his family's fellow Tidewater oligarchy connections, who were determinede to get one of their own in command of Va.'s military forces and later who were mostly singing Lee's praises to their new Pres. from out West.

Lee was the commander of all Virginia forces before they joined the confederacy.

 

[Jayboss1]

Lee was also the commander of the US army response to John Browns raid at Harpers Ferry before the war.

 

[prroh]

I think primarily it was because he was known to Winfield Scott, who seems to have regarded Lee as a sort of protege.

Also Lee was never offered command of the Union Armies. he was merely felt out if he was interested in a major command in the forces gathering around Washington. His main competitor for the job was Irwin McDowell.

 

[Dugger]

He looked cool. He had presence and charisma and was very intelligent. His Daddy, Light Horse Harry, was a semi-sorta-legend in a bad boy way. He had a cool mansion. Had links to George Washington. He looked cool. Scott loved him. No one that I know of ever disliked him (cept maybe Pickett). He was a consumate pro and that was recognized well before the Civil War. He looked cool. The ladies loved him. YES! Lee trivia folks know this but I know of no "naughty" scandel in his whole life. He was honorable. I doing the charisma thing here. My 2 cents. He looked cool also. O, he picked up a baby Robin and returned it to it's nest....right? Hmmmm, maybe.

 

[Ray Ball]

I have to disagree a little with that. Scott wasn't just any general - he was, and still is, considered America's finest soldier. He served under every president from Jefferson to Lincoln and had more experience than just about anybody! Lee had done some remarkable work for the eastern coast defenses and on the upper Mississippi (maybe saving St Louis). Lee was Scott's tactical advisor during the Mexican War and was primarily responsible for several wins that made Scott's reputation even more illustrious than it already was. He positioned the guns at Veracruz, scouted, did intelligence gathering - all manner of impressive things. Cerro Gordo, Churubusco, Chapultepec, Molino del Rey were all battles Scott credited Lee for enabling him to win.

No question about your facts here diane but you cannot overlook the fact that he was as connected as AT&T. Old VA family roots.

 

[Ray Ball]

Also Lee was never offered command of the Union Armies. he was merely felt out if he was interested in a major command in the forces gathering around Washington. His main competitor for the job was Irwin McDowell.

Picking McDowell was probably done a Buffalo Bills draft guru. (Please no flames, I'm from Buffalo- so its fair game for me)

 

[diane]

No question about your facts here diane but you cannot overlook the fact that he was as connected as AT&T. Old VA family roots.

Boy, you hit it square right there, Ray! There was a thread a while back - can't remember its title - but the OP didn't understand why Lee being a Lee was important. There wasn't anybody in tidewater Virginia Lee wasn't related to and lots of them were prominent citizens - governors, judges, etc. - as well as Revolutionary War heroes. His mother was King Carter's granddaughter - he was the richest man in Virginia, probably the whole colonies. Winfield Scott was not of the FFV but he sure would have liked to been! His grandfather was a refugee from the English Civil War, one of the Highlanders who supported Charles I. His pedigree didn't hold up to Robert E Lee's and that was another reason Scott considered him a first-rate soldier. In fact, Scott was accused of favoring Southerners in the military, especially Virginians, for promotions - he considered them more martial. This is one reason the Union was short of good officers at the start of the war, and the Confederacy had a whole lot of good ones!

 

[OpnCoronet]

How and from whom, did Lee receive his job as CinC of Va. troops? Were they not the same Tidewater oligarchs who would later press his name to Davis' attention.


P.S. apparently Lee had already been sounded out(offered?) the Va. post even before he resigned his commission. I bring this up, because of the great store some people have in his protestations that he was hoping to retire to civilian life without having to draw his sword against the United States, when, in fact, he was informed that the top military job in Va. was his for the taking, waiting for his resignation for the United States Army..