Just how many Unionist troops where there

[CSA Today]

I take it that your avoidance to answer my inquiry to mean David Williams doesn't have footnotes to back up the absurdity: "if the nearly half-million southerners who served in the Union military had been with the Confederates, the opposing forces would have been evenly matched." [your post #37]

By the way, I did buy your recommended Richard N. Current book and though I haven't had the time to read it through I did learn that for troop counting purposes he count West Virginia as part of the Confederate state of Virginia.

 

[Allie]

I take it that your avoidance to answer my inquiry to mean David Williams doesn't have footnotes to back up the absurdity: "if the nearly half-million southerners who served in the Union military had been with the Confederates, the opposing forces would have been evenly matched." [your post #37]

By the way, I did buy your recommended Richard N. Current book and though I haven't had the time to read it through I did learn that for troop counting purposes he count West Virginia as part of the Confederate state of Virginia.

Is Williams counting USCTs in that number? That would account for a large part of it.

 

[leftyhunter]

I take it that your avoidance to answer my inquiry to mean David Williams doesn't have footnotes to back up the absurdity: "if the nearly half-million southerners who served in the Union military had been with the Confederates, the opposing forces would have been evenly matched." [your post #37]

By the way, I did buy your recommended Richard N. Current book and though I haven't had the time to read it through I did learn that for troop counting purposes he count West Virginia as part of the Confederate state of Virginia.

In no way did I avoid your question. You frequently do not back up your claims with sources but you do a better job then some of your ***edit by Lnwlf*** friends. If one considers Mo,Ky, Md, and Wv to be Confederate states and the CSA did recognize Mo ,Ky has CSA states and they never agreed that Wv was a Union stae then by a Confederate definition Williams is quite right.
If we just stick to the eleven CSA states then we have 104k white men formally enlisted in the Union Army per Currents book and per archives.gov/education/lessons/blackcivilwar ( with the caveat I am not great at posting links but very easy to google) we have 179k black men in the army plus 19k in the USN at least 75% of which are born in the South. If we include Unionist home guards and guerrillas we get well over 300k Southern men bearing arms for the Union in the eleven CSA states. That's a whole lot of manpower right their. 104k white men is more (see p.218 of the Current book) then 10& of the total enlisted in the CSA which modern scholars estimate is 850k to 900k. if 104k Southern over 290k black Southners enlist in the Union Army then by definition the CSA has to send tens of thousands of troops to oppose them and oppose the other Union troops. Not to mention the irregular war which I have documented in my thread "Union vs CSA guerrillas' and that go's a long way in explaining why the CSA lost.
***edit by Lnwlf***
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

I take it that your avoidance to answer my inquiry to mean David Williams doesn't have footnotes to back up the absurdity: "if the nearly half-million southerners who served in the Union military had been with the Confederates, the opposing forces would have been evenly matched." [your post #37]

By the way, I did buy your recommended Richard N. Current book and though I haven't had the time to read it through I did learn that for troop counting purposes he count West Virginia as part of the Confederate state of Virginia.

Current notes that the vast majority of Unionist troops from Va enlisted prior to Wv being admitted as a new state.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

In no way did I avoid your question. You frequently do not back up your claims with sources but you do a better job then some of your ***edit by Lnwlf*** friends. If one considers Mo,Ky, Md, and Wv to be Confederate states and the CSA did recognize Mo ,Ky has CSA states and they never agreed that Wv was a Union stae then by a Confederate definition Williams is quite right.
If we just stick to the eleven CSA states then we have 104k white men formally enlisted in the Union Army per Currents book and per archives.gov/education/lessons/blackcivilwar ( with the caveat I am not great at posting links but very easy to google) we have 179k black men in the army plus 19k in the USN at least 75% of which are born in the South. If we include Unionist home guards and guerrillas we get well over 300k Southern men bearing arms for the Union in the eleven CSA states. That's a whole lot of manpower right their. 104k white men is more (see p.218 of the Current book) then 10& of the total enlisted in the CSA which modern scholars estimate is 850k to 900k. if 104k Southern over 290k black Southners enlist in the Union Army then by definition the CSA has to send tens of thousands of troops to oppose them and oppose the other Union troops. Not to mention the irregular war which I have documented in my thread "Union vs CSA guerrillas' and that go's a long way in explaining why the CSA lost. ***edit by Lnwlf***.
Leftyhunter

What do you mean you haven't avoided answering my question? You still haven't answer my question and not only that, you didn't make it to your second sentence before you completely changed the subject.

Anytime you want a source from me all you have to do is to ask for it. ***edit by Lnwlf***

 

[CSA Today]

Current notes that the vast majority of Unionist troops from Va enlisted prior to Wv being admitted as a new state.
Leftyhunter

That was my point, Current is counting West Virginia as part of Virginia.

I will get back to you when I have finished the book. Unlike your David Williams, I regard Richard Current a serious historian so I want spend some time with the book taking copious notes.

 

[leftyhunter]

That was my point, Current is counting West Virginia as part of Virginia.

I will get back to you when I have finished the book. Unlike your David Williams, I regard Richard Current a serious historian so I want spend some time with the book taking copious notes.

Again nothing wrong with that since at the time the men from Va enlisted their was no such thing has Wv. David Williams has quite a few documented sources. I hope you can give our friend Karral a lesson in using sources. No time clock on taking notes on Currents book.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

Okay what exactly was your question since I am pretty good about answering them. My Yankee friends are overall quite a bit better at posting sources then the majority o the Neo Confederate crowd. Your better then they are so i will give credit where it is due.
Leftyhunter

David Williams's foot or end notes for --"if the nearly half-million southerners who served in the Union military had been with the Confederates, the opposing forces would have been evenly matched."

 

[CSA Today]

Again nothing wrong with that since at the time the men from Va enlisted their was no such thing has Wv. David Williams has quite a few documented sources. I hope you can give our friend Karral a lesson in using sources. No time clock on taking notes on Currents book.
Leftyhunter

Our friend Karral?

 

[leftyhunter]

David Williams's foot or end notes for --"if the nearly half-million southerners who served in the Union military had been with the Confederates, the opposing forces would have been evenly matched."

If you include deserters plus Unionist Guerrillas plus the USCT and Unionist troops that's about right. It wasn't just the Yankees who beat Johnny Reb their was a inner civil war in the South. Southerners fighting each other has a newspaper article noted in Ga "We fight each other harder then we fight the enemy. I can dig up the actual quote.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

If you include deserters plus Unionist Guerrillas plus the USCT and Unionist troops that's about right. It wasn't just the Yankees who beat Johnny Reb their was a inner civil war in the South. Southerners fighting each other has a newspaper article noted in Ga "We fight each other harder then we fight the enemy. I can dig up the actual quote.
Leftyhunter

With all those deductions from an already much smaller Confederate army, does Williams indicate how so few remaining Confederates were able hold off that 2,778,304 Federal army –over 3 million if Williams' figures are added to it? If Williams' estimates that an addition of 500,000 men to the Confederate army would have made it the approximate size of the Federal army he would have virtually the entire free male population (all races) in the Confederate army.

 

[leftyhunter]

With all those deductions from an already much smaller Confederate army, does Williams indicate how so few remaining Confederates were able hold off that 2,778,304 Federal army –over 3 million if Williams' figures are added to it? If Williams' estimates that an addition of 500,000 men to the Confederate army would have made it the approximate size of the Federal army he would have virtually the entire free male population (all races) in the Confederate army.

Rebs right yu did change the topic . If you have questions about Current or Williams make a

When examining the total number of Union troops enlisting in the region that later became West Virginia, the George Tyler Moore Center (taken from the WV Civil War Soldier's Database) has numbers ranging from 22,000 to 25,000. However, several if these enlistees were in fact, not Virginians, but Ohioans and Pennsylvanians that crossed over the border.
http://www.shepherd.edu/gtmcweb/research_database.html

I don't, however, have the figure in front of me of the total number of Native Americans that served in that particular region.

See post #51. I will see if the mods get untangle this thread and give birth to a new one.
Leftyhunter

 

[NedBaldwin]

I take it that your avoidance to answer my inquiry to mean David Williams doesn't have footnotes to back up the absurdity: "if the nearly half-million southerners who served in the Union military had been with the Confederates, the opposing forces would have been evenly matched." [your post #37].

Southerners would include Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, Missouri, USCT, DC, Delaware etc. I did a rough estimate based on http://www.civil-war.net/pages/troops_furnished_losses.html and I got to 450,000 which could be considered nearly half-million.

 

[CSA Today]

Southerners would include Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, Missouri, USCT, DC, Delaware etc. I did a rough estimate based on http://www.civil-war.net/pages/troops_furnished_losses.html and I got to 450,000 which could be considered nearly half-million.

According to lefty hunter, who has the David Williams book, the 500,000 were from the 11 Confederate States including West Virginia and USCTs from those states.

 

[NedBaldwin]

According to lefty hunter, who has the David Williams book, the 500,000 were from the 11 Confederate States including West Virginia and USCTs from those states.

Can you quote him on that? Or can Lefty confirm?
Becuase what I have seen of this discussion, I think you are wrong.

 

[Rebforever]

Can you quote him on that? Or can Lefty confirm?
Becuase what I have seen of this discussion, I think you are wrong.

Prove it then. Show your numbers.

 

[NedBaldwin]

Prove it then. Show your numbers.

See Post #14 above. I proved it.

 

[Dave Powell]

Note that Currant's book includes totals from only those states who seceded in 1860-61. Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, etc. Are not counted in his numbers.

It is entirely right and appropriate that West Virginia be counted, as it was part of Virginia at the time, and its people were part of the military-age population of approximately 1 million in the Confederate states. Currant estimates that roughly 100,000, or 10%, actively joined the Union army. He does not cover passive resistance, such as draft avoidance, desertion, etc.

 

[Rebforever]

See Post #14 above. I proved it.

Lefty called for 11 states on post #3.

 

[NedBaldwin]

Lefty called for 11 states. You went beyond to clutter the subject.

I did not go beyond what has already been stated. CSA Today quoted the Williams book which does not refer to 11 states; it refers to 'Southerners'. I have not seen Lefty say anything different than that.