Is this a civil war shell?

[sbennett1298]

The overall shape of this object resembles a shell but the similarity ends there.
It has no bands, no machined surfaces, no nothing. It is one solid casting.
It is about 9" tall. Has a cavity in the end about the size of a soup can.
The cavity is not machined either.
The only distinguishing feature is the number 44 cast into the base.
Sorry I do not have exact measurement but could post those later if it would help.
That is a 6" scale in the photo.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum from South Florida. I'm not sure exactly what you have there but somebody here will tell you exactly what it is before long. There are some excellent weapons and relics experts on here regularly.

 

[Jimklag]

The overall shape of this object resembles a shell but the similarity ends there.
It has no bands, no machined surfaces, no nothing. It is one solid casting.
It is about 9" tall. Has a cavity in the end about the size of a soup can.
The cavity is not machined either.
The only distinguishing feature is the number 44 cast into the base.
Sorry I do not have exact measurement but could post those later if it would help.
That is a 6" scale in the photo.

The Land of Lincoln welcomes you, @sbennett1298 . There is no doubt one of our members can tell you everything you need to know about your artillery projectile.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[tbuckley]

Welcome.
I'm thinking that if it's a shell, it's post Civil War.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Hello sbennett1298.
I have to agree with @captaindrew.
Welcome to the forums !

 

[John Winn]

I don't think so. It's definitely not a shell (it's solid with no fuse hole so, at best, it is a bolt).

It doesn't have any evidence of a sabot - which would have been necessary - and I can find no example in my references for anything looking quite like that.

I've no idea what you've found; just don't think it's a Civil War projectile.

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. I agree. Its post CW.

 

[kel1985]

Welcome from Pittsburgh!

 

[Story]

Just to be the Devil's Advocate, could the hole in the base be for a now-missing stud to hold a sabot (like the 3" Mullane)?

Knowing the diameter would help, as well as an accurate weight via your bathroom scale.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

sbennett1298 - With a hole in the base "...the size of a soup can...", no apparent fuse percussion or otherwise, nor a driving band, I would tend to think it is not an artillery shell.
J.

 

[redbob]

Welcome aboard from Alabama and it will make a dandy doorstop or paperweight.

 

[Story]

Just to be the Devil's Advocate, could the hole in the base be for a now-missing stud to hold a sabot (like the 3" Mullane)?

Knowing the diameter would help, as well as an accurate weight via your bathroom scale.

sbennett1298

The Cavity in base of your iron doorstop was probably for a press-fitted stud, that held a (now missing) disc sabot.

Rifled artillery projectile, Tennessee design, Confederate manufacture, solid bolt, pattern with pointed nose and bourrelet rings, rings milled smooth to convert to smaller caliber, copper disc sabot with 3 studs in the sabot and flush mounted bolt, Confederate 30 pounder rifle, 4.2 in. Projectile started out as a Tennessee bolt, 4.5in. caliber with bourrelet rings, which would presumably have been intended for a rifled 12 pounder.

 

[kevikens]

Other than use against ironclads, what would be the use of such shells? Was the shell found near a spot that would have seen Union ironclad gunboats operating?

 

[Story]

Other than use against ironclads, what would be the use of such shells?

I think that's exactly it's purpose - APDS, 1863 style. If is *is* a variation of the Tennessee bolt, possibly cast for use against all those tinclads.

 

[kevikens]

I think that's exactly it's purpose - APDS, 1863 style. If is *is* a variation of the Tennessee bolt, possibly cast for use against all those tinclads.

No question about a bolt like that going through and through on a tinclad. I seem to recall that Confederates on the CSS Virginia shipped some of these bolts on board after their initial battle with the Monitor. Backed by enough powder I think they would have done serious damage to a monitor class ironclad. If it were done as plunging fire, say from Drury's or Vicksburg's Bluffs a hit could be catastrophic. What the original poster needs to tell us, besides the weight, is its provenance. Where did it come from? OP if this is a Civil War bolt it is quite a find

 

[Story]

What the original poster needs to tell us, besides the weight, is its provenance. Where did it come from? OP if this is a Civil War bolt it is quite a find

Yup. Can't go forward (and not really inclined to do so) until the OP gives us some measurements and weights.

 

[John Winn]

sbennett1298

The Cavity in base of your iron doorstop was probably for a press-fitted stud, that held a (now missing) disc sabot.

Rifled artillery projectile, Tennessee design, Confederate manufacture, solid bolt, pattern with pointed nose and bourrelet rings, rings milled smooth to convert to smaller caliber, copper disc sabot with 3 studs in the sabot and flush mounted bolt, Confederate 30 pounder rifle, 4.2 in. Projectile started out as a Tennessee bolt, 4.5in. caliber with bourrelet rings, which would presumably have been intended for a rifled 12 pounder.
View attachment 140905

Possible but I don' know. The one in question is more pointed and does not have the cutouts in the base for attachment of the sabot like the one you show. We'll have to wait for those measurements.

 

[Story]

Possible but I don' know. The one in question is more pointed and does not have the cutouts in the base for attachment of the sabot like the one you show. We'll have to wait for those measurements.

Yes, that's what Kevikens and I are discussing Somewhere I read about the request for rounds to penetrate ironclads' armor and I suspect this is one of those munitions, but like I said I'm not spending more time until measurements are divulged.

I noticed the lack of anti-rotation cutouts - that's why I insinuate that it might be a variant design, or that the sabot was secured in a different manner than the example given.*

Lord knows there's enough precedence for those sort of plot twists.

* PS thought - if the hole in the base is cast and not machined, that might be an additional indicator that this was an emergency production projectile; friction fitted stud for securing a driving band, and the driving band might have even been something like cast lead, with the driving band shredding off right after discharge.
Not exactly the best solution for pin-point accuracy, but if it's a choice between a sub-optimal solution you can shoot tomorrow or waiting for something better that'll show up long after those tin and ironclads have done their damage and sailed away, I think I'd opt for the projectiles behind Door #1.

 

[sbennett1298]

I apologize again for the lack of measurements. I will post measurements early next week when I return home.
I got this object from an antique store so I have no way of knowing where it came from originally but for what it's worth the antique store is in close proximity to Dahlgren Naval base and also only 45 minutes from Fredericksburg VA. or Richmond VA.