Lincoln How would Lincoln have handled Reconstruction?

[John Winn]

His reputation would have suffered terribly. Most of the whites in the south already hated him, the radical republicans would have quickly learned to hate him as well. No matter what he would have hoped to do would have been corrupted or watered down by 1 faction or another and he would have left office a sad, broken unpopular man.

While I don't feel things would have been as grim as you think it would have, I do often wonder about Lincoln's popularity; i.e. would we remember him as the saint he is often now pictured to be if he had lived ? In reality, he wasn't that popular to start with and the public's sentiments shifted pretty quickly depending on how the war was going on any particular day. He might also have been hammered by opposition groups regarding his questionable actions during the war. Once he was assassinated, though, he became a symbol (dare I say in a somewhat similar fashion as Lee ?).

 

[W. Richardson]

Indeed. Look at how many Confederate sympathizers on this forum despise him to this very day!

Really ? maybe that is due to the Lincoln Worshipers here who fall on the ground, bow down and kiss the ground he walks on, in attempts to portray him as a walking, totally honest, perfect God like individual.......I do not despise him........I despise the way many Lincoln worshipers try to whitewash the history involving him.

Respectfully,

William

 

[brass napoleon]

Really ? maybe that is due to the Lincoln Worshipers here who fall on the ground, bow down and kiss the ground he walks on, in attempts to portray him as a walking, totally honest, perfect God like individual.......I do not despise him........I despise the way many Lincoln worshipers try to whitewash the history involving him.

Respectfully,

William

I didn't say that YOU despised him William, but there are clearly people on this forum who do. And exactly what history is being "whitewashed" here?

 

[W. Richardson]

I didn't say that YOU despised him William, but there are clearly people on this forum who do. And exactly what history is being "whitewashed" here?

Lincoln's history...........He isn't the perfect pure as a driven snow president.

Respectfully,

William

 

[brass napoleon]

Lincoln's history...........He isn't the perfect pure as a driven snow president.

Respectfully,

William

Say it ain't so, William!!!

 

[W. Richardson]

Say it ain't so, William!!!

Then stop acting like it is..............lol.....

Respectfully,

William

 

[gary]

Historically, disposable people were always placed on the border as a buffer against an exterior threat. Rome did it with the various tribes (didn't work too well with the Visigoths) as did the Chinese. The Dutch did the same with their slaves who lived on the other side of Wall Street in Manhattan.

It is possible with the freed slaves that Abe could have given them their 40 acres and a mule in Indian Country. They would have been a buffer for the whites.

 

[brass napoleon]

Then stop acting like it is..............lol.....

Respectfully,

William

Would you care to show us where I ever did?

Thanks,
brass

 

[W. Richardson]

Would you care to show us where I ever did?

Thanks,
brass

Each time you hide behind....."That was taken out of context"

Respectfully,

William

 

[John Winn]

It is possible with the freed slaves that Abe could have given them their 40 acres and a mule in Indian Country. They would have been a buffer for the whites.

That's a fun vision. I'm seeing freed slaves getting along with the natives (trust us ya'll ... pale face baaad) and providing a buffer of another type. It could be the basis for my next novel !

 

[gary]

That's a fun vision. I'm seeing freed slaves getting along with the natives (trust us ya'll ... pale face baaad) and providing a buffer of another type. It could be the basis for my next novel !

I can see the slaves assimilating into Indian ways. Some tribes actually adopted blacks (and the adoption is in dispute today because of oil money for the tribes). During the Filipino Insurrection (they resented the U. S. kicking out the Spanish and then hoisting their own flag over the Philippines), some of the U. S. C. T. identified more with the Filipinos than they did with White America.

 

[brass napoleon]

Each time you hide behind....."That was taken out of context"

Respectfully,

William

William, I'm not going to explain the concept of "context" to you again. If you don't get it, I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do for you. But when you do take something out of context, I will point it out - not for your benefit, but for other people who are reading, so that THEY can see what really was said in its entirety, and not just the little snippet that you pulled out to promote your own agenda. Got it?

 

[W. Richardson]

William, I'm not going to explain the concept of "context" to you again. If you don't get it, I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do for you. But when you do take something out of context, I will point it out - not for your benefit, but for other people who are reading, so that THEY can see what really was said in its entirety, and not just the little snippet that you pulled out to promote your own agenda. Got it?

I understand the meaning of "out of context" and it isn't something for one to hide behind each time the truth is pointed out, unless.........One is afraid of the truth, and I am sure you.........GOT IT !

Respectfully,

William

 

[brass napoleon]

I understand the meaning of "out of context" and it isn't something for one to hide behind each time the truth is pointed out, unless.........One is afraid of the truth, and I am sure you.........GOT IT !

Respectfully,

William

Whatever, William. I stand by my pledge. Have a nice night.

 

[W. Richardson]

Whatever, William. I stand by my pledge. Have a nice night.

Thank you...........Have a nice evening as well.

Respectfully,

William

 

[Lee]

I have always been and likely will continue to be right up to my personal expiration date a proud Confederate descendant and a Southern Partisan and I do have a few bones to pick with Lincoln in that he never toured much less spared any time thinking about POW camps and facilities and he definitely twisted the Constitution in knots. But putting that aside for the moment Lincoln was called a hayseed, a country bumpkin, an Emperor and or Dictator and an "Ape" not by Confederates but by Northerners and Northern Newspapers for crying out loud. It is good that contributors here remind everyone that Lincoln was NOT doted on and worshiped or even considered a popular POTUS. Lincoln was not popular or what we define popular as today although he did win reelection mainly owing to the Federal soldiers fighting and dying in the war.

Hail the best popularity move Lincoln ever made was getting assassinated as that more than anything else was the catalyst that brought about so much of the popularity and justice due him for his life, stressful time and service as President. Actually one of the things I most admire about the man is he DID NOT serve or live like he aspired to be liked, loved, or worshiped. I love reading about his country stories. When Lincoln asked McClellan if he wasn't going to use the AOP would he mind if he borrowed them? The man definitely had pluck and understood sarcasm. But then Lincoln didn't shriek or spit venom at his adversaries far from it he was focused on the task at hand he wanted a solution not prizes for being popular. IMO Lincoln understood very well the downsides of many men and suffered endless statements and long winded dialogues delivered by those he likely pegged as men who were saying what "they felt" he wanted to hear or worse use their influence with him to advance their agenda or settle scores or perhaps enhance their chances for promotion.

And I realize Lincoln was a country lawyer and a politician but from what I have read the man was NOT ego driven and to me it seems he was preoccupied dealing with the many events, issues, and crisis situations that were being thrown at him to do much of anything else. Lincoln once asked a Federal General I can't remember who how he and a few thousand men fought battles and advanced upon and took the capital of Mexico in such a short time yet with tremendous resources and a hundred thousand men couldn't seem to advance a mere 100 miles and capture Richmond? Relentless frustration and bad news were a breakfast cereal for Lincoln during much of his time in office and even at times the good news was far less good than he wanted to hear. But Lincoln could read men and after wading through legions of them he managed to recognize, find, and choose one who could finally bring the long bloody war to an end even though it took even more fast flowing rivers of blood and lost human treasure to accomplish the task.

I don't hate Lincoln I never did as the man fascinates me. BTW has anyone here noticed that Lincoln's profile on the penny faces the opposite direction (facing right) of all the other Presidents (facing left) on our coinage?

 

[Mike Griffith]

In my opinion, it's hard to say how Reconstruction would have been implemented if Lincoln had lived. I think Lincoln leaned toward a conciliatory, mild version of Reconstruction. However, Lincoln showed over and over again that he was somewhat weak willed and could be pressured into doing things he didn't really want. I am not sure how strongly Lincoln would have stood up to the Radicals. I think he would have had a lot more weight than did Andrew Johnson, and I like to think he would have succeeded in preventing the harsher aspects of Reconstruction. But I am by no means sure how well he would have held up under Radical pressure.

I believe that if Lincoln had been free from the tremendous pressure that was put on him by protectionist Northern business interests and the Radicals, he probably would have evacuated Fort Sumter and would have gradually, over time, accepted some kind of peaceful separation with the South--either an official separation or a de facto one by declining to invade. At one point he clearly seems to have decided to evacuate the fort, but then he later changed his mind. The timing of his apparent change of mind is a fascinating subject in and of itself.

Although I dish out plenty of criticism of Lincoln, I believe a good chunk of the blame for the war belongs with the protectionist Northern businessmen who reacted so vehemently to the low Confederate tariff and with the Radicals. I think Jefferson Davis had good reason to mourn Lincoln's death. I also think Davis had good reason to praise Lincoln as a person.

 

[brass napoleon]

...Although I dish out plenty of criticism of Lincoln, I believe a good chunk of the blame for the war belongs with the protectionist Northern businessmen who reacted so vehemently to the low Confederate tariff and with the Radicals...

And yet ANOTHER attempt to hijack yet ANOTHER thread with your modern day political agenda and unsupported assertions. Call the Guinness people, I think we're going for a world record here, folks.

 

[Rebforever]

And yet ANOTHER attempt to hijack yet ANOTHER thread with your modern day political agenda and unsupported assertions. Call the Guinness people, I think we're going for a world record here, folks.

Isn't this an opinion the poster is allowed to have without threats? What modern day political agenda?

 

[John Winn]

In my opinion, it's hard to say how Reconstruction would have been implemented if Lincoln had lived. I think Lincoln leaned toward a conciliatory, mild version of Reconstruction. However, Lincoln showed over and over again that he was somewhat weak willed and could be pressured into doing things he didn't really want. I am not sure how strongly Lincoln would have stood up to the Radicals. I think he would have had a lot more weight than did Andrew Johnson, and I like to think he would have succeeded in preventing the harsher aspects of Reconstruction. But I am by no means sure how well he would have held up under Radical pressure.

I believe that if Lincoln had been free from the tremendous pressure that was put on him by protectionist Northern business interests and the Radicals, he probably would have evacuated Fort Sumter and would have gradually, over time, accepted some kind of peaceful separation with the South--either an official separation or a de facto one by declining to invade. At one point he clearly seems to have decided to evacuate the fort, but then he later changed his mind. The timing of his apparent change of mind is a fascinating subject in and of itself.

Although I dish out plenty of criticism of Lincoln, I believe a good chunk of the blame for the war belongs with the protectionist Northern businessmen who reacted so vehemently to the low Confederate tariff and with the Radicals. I think Jefferson Davis had good reason to mourn Lincoln's death. I also think Davis had good reason to praise Lincoln as a person.

I usually avoid the pissing matches that go on here (and will continue to do so) but for some reason felt compelled to respond.

* I think you are right that Lincoln would have had a hard time with the Radicals but likely would have handled it much better than Johnson for a number of reasons. However, I think you are way off base to characterize Lincoln as "weak willed." Some have criticized (incorrectly IMO) him for being more reactionary than pro-active but weak-willed he was not. He had a lot to deal with and yet he is generally recognized to have been one of the most effective presidents we've ever had. I'd characterize him as a realist who deftly used all the powers available to him and his considerable political skills to achieve what he could. If he wanted something, he played a mean poker game and managed to beat more than one of the supposed more sophisticated and educated boys at their own game. He made some mistakes and took a lot of liberties (a few too many IMO) but weak willed ? Really wrong on that.

* I usually also try not to assert that I know others' thoughts or motives but I'm going to say I do think you are doing a bait and switch here with the Sumter, northern business interest, and tariff stuff. That's not what the OP is about and I'm not going there.