Currency How many Confederate notes per sheet?

[Bur Oak]

If the number issued was really roughly 1/5th of the number reported in that study, the piece would be a lot rarer today. Most any dealer, who has a stock of Confederate notes, will have at least one of these notes.

Sorry to dig up another older thread, but there is a need, or at least an opportunity to post some information that might be useful to some.

Generally, Confederate notes printed on the same sheet all had the same serial number. What made them unique was the combination of the number and the plate position. The A through D found on T64s indicates the position on a single plate, not different plates. Thus, with the $500 notes having been printed four to the sheet, one can take the highest serial number found, multiply by four, and get a reasonable estimate of the number issued.

The 1864 denominations from $1 to $10 were printed eight to the sheet, as seen in one of the earlier posts.

 

[Bur Oak]

Any Confederate note that was hand signed in Black Ink is a fake. All real Confederate notes that were hand signed were signed in brown ink although you will find some serial numbers done by hand in blue or red ink.

This is potentially misleading.

The notes were signed with what is known as iron gall ink. It was made with a combination of tannic acid leached from oak galls, ferrous sulphate, and gum Arabic. When fresh, it is black.

Iron gall ink has the tendency to "burn" paper. In fact, the word "ink" comes from the same Latin root as the word "incinerate." The degree to which this ink turns brown likely is a factor of it's exact original composition, environmental factors over time which can cause it to fade, and the degree to which it affects the paper.

It is true, that most signatures appear brown or a brownish-black today, though it is still occasionally possible to find some that appear black. In those cases, one should be able to tell that it is a different shade of black than the printed portions of the note. Also, one should be able to see, in the wider portions of the lines of the signature, a distinctly darker edge, not unlike a coffee stain on a countertop. Magnification may be helpful. Also, bleed through is frequently seen on the thinner papers.

 

[JOHN42768]

I have an A plate VF25 graded T64 noted PF-2 CR-489 Pink Underprint. I noticed PF3 mentioned earlier in this thread as a darker red. Was PF-2 just a lighter version? I'm guessing CR-489 might be counterfeit resistant. Also if I understand correct each sheet all the bills had the same serial number?

 

[Bur Oak]

The T64s are divided into PF1 to PF3 by the color of the overprint. The early serial numbers are often red, the middle numbers, pink, and the higher numbers, a darker red. The PF2 falls in the middle, and has the lighter overprint. The serial number ranges of the variants overlap. All T64s are listed as CR-489, with red variants having the letter A or B added. The "CR" stands for (Grover) Criswell, who listed then known varieties of Confederate notes sequentially. It's an old system which suffers from the inability to easily fit a newly discovered variety into the sequence. The Fricke system, which numbers varieties only within established type numbers is easier (though still not perfect) in that regard, and has largely replaced the Criswell system, though the CR. number is often still cross referenced.

Yes, all the notes on an original sheet of T64s have the same number. What renders each note unique is the combination of the number and the plate letter.

 

[JOHN42768]

The T64s are divided into PF1 to PF3 by the color of the overprint. The early serial numbers are often red, the middle numbers, pink, and the higher numbers, a darker red. The PF2 falls in the middle, and has the lighter overprint. The serial number ranges of the variants overlap. All T64s are listed as CR-489, with red variants having the letter A or B added. The "CR" stands for (Grover) Criswell, who listed then known varieties of Confederate notes sequentially. It's an old system which suffers from the inability to easily fit a newly discovered variety into the sequence. The Fricke system, which numbers varieties only within established type numbers is easier (though still not perfect) in that regard, and has largely replaced the Criswell system, though the CR. number is often still cross referenced.

Yes, all the notes on an original sheet of T64s have the same number. What renders each note unique is the combination of the number and the plate letter.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all. So it could be possible , but not likely to have more then one copy of a bill from the same plate with the same serial number unless you had the whole sheet. To me anyway this kind of defeats the purpose of having a serial number. One other thing I forgot to ask, noted "CSA Treasury Stamp" being the red seal at corner? Thanks

 

[JOHN42768]

Attachment of the T64 above:

 

[Bur Oak]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all. So it could be possible , but not likely to have more then one copy of a bill from the same plate with the same serial number unless you had the whole sheet. To me anyway this kind of defeats the purpose of having a serial number. One other thing I forgot to ask, noted "CSA Treasury Stamp" being the red seal at corner? Thanks

There would have been four notes with the same serial number, printed with the same plate, having positions A through D. Yours is from plate position A. While the serial number is repeated on that sheet only, no two notes from that or any other sheet have both the same number and plate letter, so each IS unique. If these other notes from positions B, C and D still exist, it would be possible to have more than one from the same sheet with that number.

I actually own two T36 notes from the same sheet which I purchased (at least) months apart and from different sources.

The Treasury stamp is indeed the partial seal in the corner of your note.

 

[JOHN42768]

There would have been four notes with the same serial number, printed with the same plate, having positions A through D. Yours is from plate position A. While the serial number is repeated on that sheet only, no two notes from that or any other sheet have both the same number and plate letter, so each IS unique. If these other notes from positions B, C and D still exist, it would be possible to have more than one from the same sheet.

I actually own two T36 notes from the same sheet which I purchased (at least) months apart and from different sources.

The Treasury stamp is indeed the partial seal in the corner of your note.

Okay, so if I understand correctly: Plate A had 4 notes being a,b,c &d positions all with same serial number. This would have been repeated on Plate B, C &D each plate having same serial number and that number applied to all positions a,b,d &d on each plate. I'm thinking the capital A being the plate designation and the small letter a being the position. All said and done there were only four notes with the same serial number and different position per each plate designation or sixteen notes total with the same serial number, but different plate designations and positions. Sorry to beat this to death. Thank you

 

[Bur Oak]

Okay, so if I understand correctly: Plate A had 4 notes being a,b,c &d positions all with same serial number. This would have been repeated on Plate B, C &D each plate having same serial number and that number applied to all positions a,b,d &d on each plate. I'm thinking the capital A being the plate designation and the small letter a being the position. All said and done there were only four notes with the same serial number and different position per each plate designation or sixteen notes total with the same serial number, but different plate designations and positions. Sorry to beat this to death. Thank you

No.

There is no "Plate A" and "Plate B," etc.
There was just one plate, and it had positions A, B, C, and D. Consequently, only four notes in total had the same number, one with each of the position letters.

 

[JOHN42768]

Okay, what was throwing me was the grading company calling it "Plate" A. Only four notes were printed with serial #10299 and they were position a,b,c &d with this one being "Position"A instead of Plate A. Thank you for your patience.

 

[Bur Oak]

Okay, what was throwing me was the grading company calling it "Plate" A. Only four notes were printed with serial #10299 and they were position a,b,c &d with this one being "Position"A instead of Plate A. Thank you for your patience.

You're welcome.

It is easily confusing. It should say "plate position" to be more clear. Fricke uses the word "plen" (if that is a word) to indicate position and avoid potential confusion. Even if multiple plates were in actual use, they never had distinctions that would have applied to the serial numbering system.