Hornet's Nest placement?

[KeithA]

My 3gr grandfather Jacob Weitzell 1820-1907 served in the 11th IA infantry from October 1861 to October 1864. My research has led me to information that not only was he at Shiloh but was possibly in or near the Hornets Nest; AND that it was their regiment that was thought to have potentially killed Gen. Albert Sidney Johnston CSA?
(Hoping for more sources on that one, but do have link below):
http://www.iowacivilwarmonuments.com/cgi-bin/gaarddetails.pl?1223749859

I need help nailing that down and a few more details please?

At 36:20 into episode 2 of Ken Burns' Civil War it states that "Farm boys from Illinois and Iowa mostly" made a stand on a sunken road in the center under Gen Benjamin Prentiss.
Was the 11th part if the command under Prentiss on day 1?
I found this map: it shows the 11th was under Hare in what looks like Gen WHL Wallace's brigade in the Hornets Nest.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bat..._AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=518#imgrc=n8ODtkwunRPMSM:
But I also see the 11th on this map in reserve under Gen McLernand:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bat..._AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=518#imgrc=hbDQJBXpCgZLeM:
I know Wallace was killed during the battle but I can't locate confirmation that the 11th was transferred to Prentiss or where they were positioned under his command.
There are maps indicating where Johnston was killed and I'm hoping to nail down the placement of the 11th at that moment so I can determine if the information is true?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mt155]

http://www.shilohbattlefield.org/results.asp?varCWUNIT=UIA0011RI&Submit=Submit
This should help. Click each link to get a picture of the tablet or monument. The locations align with the Trailhead Graphic map that shows every marker/tablet/monument on the field.

 

[KeithA]

Wow! Fantastic! Thank you

 

[mofederal]

It was really W.H. L. Wallace who was the real hero at the Hornet's Nest, his division was right next to the Hornet's Nest, and they withstood 6 hours of assault before being surrounded. He ordered his men to withdrawal, and was fatally wounded in the attempt. He died 3 days later. Prentiss lived and was proclaimed a hero.

 

[chucksr]

I've always been under the impression that Johnston was wounded (fatally) while directing attacks into the peach orchard that was just east/south east of the sunken road and the rebel "Hornet's Nest" portion of the battle.

 

[AlexPensFan86]

I've always been under the impression that Johnston was wounded (fatally) while directing attacks into the peach orchard that was just east/south east of the sunken road and the rebel "Hornet's Nest" portion of the battle.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it also theorized that Johnston may have been killed by accidental friendly fire?

 

[mofederal]

I had thought they had decided that as well. He was killed by an Enfield bullet, but no Union Army Regiments in that part of the field were carrying Enfields. Only Confederate troops were carrying the Enfield. So he was probably killed by friendly fire.

 

[KeithA]

I had thought they had decided that as well. He was killed by an Enfield bullet, but no Union Army Regiments in that part of the field were carrying Enfields. Only Confederate troops were carrying the Enfield. So he was probably killed by friendly fire.

I have read the friendly fire comment too. that's why I was stunned to find the link above stating that it had been theorized that the 11th was responsible. Thank you first sergeant mt155 for the maps of the battle placements; they indicate the 11th Iowa was moving around a lot and WAS in the Hornets Nest next to Wallace; but I can't find them having been close to where Johnston was hit at (approx 2:30 pm?) on 4-6-62> not yet anyhow

so... c'est la-vie. I won't believe it unless I find a smoking gun somewhere.

 

[KeithA]

OK - Keith can't leave it alone....

Markers at Shiloh state the Johnston Memorial stands at the spot where Gen AS Johnston was wounded; with other markers placed indicating where he was found by Isham Harris, was taken to and then died.

http://www.civilwaralbum.com/shiloh/images/johnston4.jpg

based on the NPS website listed above - shilohbattlefuled.org
Thank you first sergeant mt155!!!
the Monument stands at 35° 7.812' N 88° 19.772' W
with him being there April 6 ~2:20 p.m. ~2:30 p.m..

The placement markers for the 11th Iowa throughout April 6, 1862 are at these points :
35° 8.788' N 88° 20.739' W morning
35° 8.276' N 88° 20.983' W morning
35° 8.760' N 88° 20.820' W morning
35° 8.455' N 88° 20.990' W afternoon
35° 9.033' N 88° 19.419' W afternoon/evening

Based on proximity only the 11th COULD HAVE shot Johnston; they were on top of him all day, just slightly north of him . >> If he was leading his men in charging northerly ground (he was south of the Peach Orchard) is this feasible?

"As the Confederate forces overran the Union camps, Johnston seemed to be everywhere, personally leading and rallying troops up and down the line on his horse. At about 2:30 pm, while leading one of those charges against a Union camp near the "Peach Orchard," he was wounded, taking a bullet behind his right knee. "

I know this doesn't explain the Enfield Rifle part of the question., and it is possible he was in front of the Iowa men when he was hit by friendly fire
But...
Is Enfield Ammunition at all similar to what the Federals had that day?
Could the BULLETS be confused with one another?

 

[TomP]

@KeithA I'm afraid the 11th Iowa was never in a position to get a shot at A.S. Johnston on April 6. They were assigned to Hare's 1st Brigade (later Crocker) of McClernand's 1st Division.

At noon this brigade participated in the counterattack led by Sherman and McClernand. By 2:30 in the afternoon, about the time Johnston was wounded, the 11th Iowa was falling back through Jones Field in the direction of Tilghman Branch. This retreat took them right past their own campsite at Jones Field. This places them about a mile and a half away from the site where Johnston was mortally wounded.

Tom

 

[KeithA]

@KeithA I'm afraid the 11th Iowa was never in a position to get a shot at A.S. Johnston on April 6. They were assigned to Hare's 1st Brigade (later Crocker) of McClernand's 1st Division.

At noon this brigade participated in the counterattack led by Sherman and McClernand. By 2:30 in the afternoon, about the time Johnston was wounded, the 11th Iowa was falling back through Jones Field in the direction of Tilghman Branch. This retreat took them right past their own campsite at Jones Field. This places them about a mile and a half away from the site where Johnston was mortally wounded.

Tom

Thank you sir; that's exactly what I needed

 

[TomP]

Glad to help.

This also means the 11th was nowhere near the Hornet's Nest either. Take heart, however. for their monument can be found in Wolff Field adjacent to Water Oaks Pond, one of the scenes of the heaviest fighting in the battle. A former Ranger at the park called it the "dark and bloody ground of Shiloh." Sherman and McClernand were being pressed by 9 of the 16 Confederate brigades and delivered the only counter-attack of the day which bought Grant some much needed time on his right flank.

Tom

 

[KeithA]

Glad to help.

This also means the 11th was nowhere near the Hornet's Nest either. Take heart, however. for their monument can be found in Wolff Field adjacent to Water Oaks Pond, one of the scenes of the heaviest fighting in the battle. A former Ranger at the park called it the "dark and bloody ground of Shiloh." Sherman and McClernand were being pressed by 9 of the 16 Confederate brigades and delivered the only counter-attack of the day which bought Grant some much needed time on his right flank.

Tom

Wow. Is this Civil War Trust map wrong then? It shows the 11th under Hare directly in the NEST

https://www.google.com/search?q=bat..._AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=518#imgrc=n8ODtkwunRPMSM:

 

[mt155]

Looked through all my pics of Shiloh and BAM! One pic of the 11th Iowa marker with Water Oaks Pond in the foreground. I took this in 2009.

 

[KeithA]

Wow. Is this Civil War Trust map wrong then? It shows the 11th under Hare directly in the NEST

https://www.google.com/search?q=bat..._AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=518#imgrc=n8ODtkwunRPMSM:

It is so frustrating to find incorrect information from usually legitimate sources!

 

[TomP]

It is so frustrating to find incorrect information from usually legitimate sources!

The maps put out by the Civil War Trust are very colorful but sometimes they try and put a lot of information on a fairly small map and there are inevitably things that can be misinterpreted. This is one of those times. Hare's Brigade was not in the vicinity of the Hornet's Nest which was centered at the crossing of the Eastern Corinth Road and the "Sunken Road." Late in the afternoon of the 6th the 11th was north of the Hornet's Nest, but more than a mile to the north.

There are some really good maps of the battlefield that can be found in a number of books, but for following individual troop movements on the field you can't get any better than the "Trailhead Map", of the Battlefield America Civil War Map Series. One of our members here at CivilWarTalk is responsible for these excellent maps. http://www.trailheadgraphics.com/index.php

The Shiloh map shows the positions of all position markers, monuments, camp sites, burial sites. historic roads, as well as modern roads and amenities. The "dash-lines" noting trails into the woods was my contribution many years ago.

A word about the cast-iron position markers on the field. The location of each one came from the veterans themselves who worked with the park commission in the late 1890's and early 1900's. You can trust the position markers.

Tom

 

[KeithA]

The maps put out by the Civil War Trust are very colorful but sometimes they try and put a lot of information on a fairly small map and there are inevitably things that can be misinterpreted. This is one of those times. Hare's Brigade was not in the vicinity of the Hornet's Nest which was centered at the crossing of the Eastern Corinth Road and the "Sunken Road." Late in the afternoon of the 6th the 11th was north of the Hornet's Nest, but more than a mile to the north.

There are some really good maps of the battlefield that can be found in a number of books, but for following individual troop movements on the field you can't get any better than the "Trailhead Map", of the Battlefield America Civil War Map Series. One of our members here at CivilWarTalk is responsible for these excellent maps. http://www.trailheadgraphics.com/index.php

The Shiloh map shows the positions of all position markers, monuments, camp sites, burial sites. historic roads, as well as modern roads and amenities. The "dash-lines" noting trails into the woods was my contribution many years ago.

A word about the cast-iron position markers on the field. The location of each one came from the veterans themselves who worked with the park commission in the late 1890's and early 1900's. You can trust the position markers.

Tom


View attachment 159354

Thank you @TomP . I certainly know my 3g grandfather and his unit were there, and they were heavily involved. That's what I knew when I started, so its all good. The rest was just gravy.